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z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

  • 1.  z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Tue October 17, 2023 04:44 PM

    Hi team, I work with MQ for long time and I remember that in sometime there were a sample with Cobol batch trigger monitor shared as supportpac. I've tried to find out Today and I found only Rexx application and the related documentation links are broken. How I can get an application sample of Batch MQ trigger monitor, please? 

    I really appreciate your input.

    Regards,

    Alex



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    Alexandre Mendes de Assis
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  • 2.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Wed October 18, 2023 12:17 PM
      |   view attached

    Hi Alexander

    see attached file

    Tiziana Tizianel



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    Tiziana Tizianel
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    Attachment(s)

    zip
    ma12.zip   22 KB 1 version
    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Wed October 18, 2023 12:29 PM

    Hello Tiziana, thank you very much for sharing!

    Regards,

    Alex



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    Alexandre Mendes de Assis
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Mon October 23, 2023 12:53 AM

    I had a quick chat with some Hursley contacts and the response came back that MA12 was withdrawn in January 2020 and that there are no plans to make it available again.

    I see you have got a copy of it now (and I have also saved that copy!).

    Cheers,
    Morag



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    Morag Hughson
    MQ Technical Education Specialist
    MQGem Software Limited
    Website: https://www.mqgem.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Mon October 23, 2023 01:54 AM

    Hi Morag, thanks for checking. I remember that I saw sometime this supportpac when I've started to work with MQ (V1.2) but I was not remember the supportpac. Again, thank you very much!

    Regards,

    Alex



    ------------------------------
    Alexandre Mendes de Assis
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Tue April 29, 2025 09:34 AM

    Hi Morag,
    just curious: did they say why it is not available anymore? it seems a very useful support pack to me.
    Especially because the official manuals do provide other trigger monitors, and a Batch-version is lacking.
    Regards, Peter



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    Peter de Wolf
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Tue April 29, 2025 05:55 PM

    Hi Peter,

    No, they didn't say. All they were able to find out was what I quoted above. My memory doesn't recall who it was that originally created this Support Pac, but my guess would be that they are not there any more.

    Do you think there is a need for a fully supported version of a Batch Trigger Monitor?

    Cheers,
    Morag



    ------------------------------
    Morag Hughson
    MQ Technical Education Specialist
    MQGem Software Limited
    Website: https://www.mqgem.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Wed April 30, 2025 02:45 AM

    Just curious from a design point of view. Wouldn't  the words batch and trigger monitor point to an anti-pattern?

    Either it is batch and then there is no need for a trigger monitor, or it is online, and then it should probably be written differently (as a CICS program) and can well be triggered.



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    Francois Brandelik
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    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Wed April 30, 2025 03:24 AM
    Edited by Morag Hughson Wed April 30, 2025 03:24 AM

    I guess whether it is an anti-pattern or not depends on whether you believe it is useful to automatically run a JCL invoked program (deliberately avoiding using the word 'batch" here) as a result of a message arriving on a queue.

    Another way to ask the question is whether all batch jobs are batch? How would you answer that one? Is it the name of the environment in which the program runs or the name of the type of processing system?

    Are all triggered programs considered "online" or does one trigger the start of the batch run? One is a invocation type and one is a processing type and they are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

    Would it be more appropriate to name this entity the "JCL Trigger Monitor"?

    Cheers,
    Morag



    ------------------------------
    Morag Hughson
    MQ Technical Education Specialist
    MQGem Software Limited
    Website: https://www.mqgem.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Wed April 30, 2025 12:10 PM

    I like that name = 'JCL Trigger Monitor' 



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    Lyn Elkins
    IBM
    Avon, IN
    elkinsc@us.ibm.com
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    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Thu May 01, 2025 09:13 AM

    I believe that what we have here is a distinction without a difference.  

    JCL is a scripting language whose purpose is to start work, to start an application.  Isn't the same true of runmqtrrm?  
    "Batch' presupposes more than one transaction in the execution of the application.  Whether the started application processes one message, or two, or ten thousand, the processing logic (the main loop) is the same; and all this with effectively no interaction with an end-user. 
    'Online' implies a single main-loop interaction with an end-user..

    Another distinction without a difference is the flexibility (abstraction)  of both midrange and MVS o/s's to redirect input and output.  Midrange o/s's  use < > to 'allocate' the device, while MVS uses DD statements - this execution gats input from a keyboard, another execution from a disk/tape file. 

    A wide variety of job-schedulers now available may explain why the support pac is no longer supported. 



    ------------------------------
    bruce2359
    Consultant/trainer
    CTTECH - Computer & Telecommunications Technology
    West Coast, almost
    000-000-0000
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    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Fri May 02, 2025 10:32 AM
    Edited by Wayne Myers Fri May 02, 2025 10:36 AM

    Hi Bruce,

    Our site, and a few others that I've spoken to over the years, still uses the ZTM as a method to signal the job scheduling product that a batch job predecessor completed. If the batch job only has that one predecessor, it is immediately submitted. If the batch job has multiple preds, it will submit when all preds are met.

    When ready, an application will put a basic trigger message onto a Queue having a trigger process defined. That trigger process specifies the batch job name. The queue is defined with trigger data associating it to an initiation queue that the ZTM is monitoring. A trigger message WTO is then sent to the system log that is picked up by the job scheduling product and/or automation, specifying the message number, ZTM task, a message stating to submit job xxxxxxxx, the runtime environment, Queue Manager and Queue that received the trigger message. The message sits on that trigger queue until the batch job starts and clears the message. The trigger will automatically redrive every 5 minutes or so until the batch job is started and consumes that message. (Sort of like how a CICS transaction trigger will retry every several minutes until a transaction opens the queue.) 

    The ZTM approach provides a nice, consistent batch triggering mechanism that distributed applications a local host ones can use to signal when data is ready for processing--one that is not directly coupled to a scheduling product. The ZTM is still being used out in the field, now as user customized code.

    Cheers,

    Wayne



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    Wayne Myers
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    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Tue July 01, 2025 11:44 AM

    Morag,

    I know I'm chiming in late in this overall discussion.  I'm newer in this shop, but did notice that we run the MA12 support pac here and where I'm seeing it used is some application (most likely off the mainframe) is writing records to the z/OS queue manager, and then this batch trigger monitor kicks off batch jobs, which use run a db2 plan to extract the data, from the queue and load them into some db2 tables.  

    Right now, we're running on code compiled back in 2008-2009, when we were running mq v7.  

    Having a function, to replace this, built into the MQ on z/OS (or re-instating the support pac to be supported by IBM) would be a good idea.

    BTW, the readme in the MA12 support pac file, provided earlier in this discussion, lists the author being Wayne Schutz, who might be retired by now.

    Thanks,

    Peter



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    Peter Vander Woude
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    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Tue July 01, 2025 11:49 AM
    Edited by MATTHEW LEMING Tue July 01, 2025 11:51 AM

    Hi,

    This was rather timely in that we had a related Idea raised yesterday: https://ideas.ibm.com/ideas/MESNS-I-871.

    It would be useful to understand how common this requirement for a supported batch trigger monitor is, so please vote it it would be of interest to you.

    Regards, Matt.



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    Matt Leming
    STSM, IBM MQ for z/OS
    Email: lemingma@uk.ibm.com
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    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Wed January 28, 2026 09:32 AM

    Thanks for raising, I had no idea that the SupportPac meant not base and could be withdrawn from support.  Have voted.



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    john stevenson
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    Original Message


  • 16.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Thu May 01, 2025 01:59 AM

    Even if you set aside Morag's point that the word "batch" can mean either the environment or the processing technique, there is still a valid use case for triggering with the batch processing pattern.
    Trigger on depth means that you can leave a queue with no application running until the queue depth reaches a certain point, and then trigger the application to process all the messages in a batch. 
    Since batch processing is generally used to achieve an efficiency, the choice to start your batch application by triggering in preference to another mechanism would depend on the efficiencies you're trying to achieve. If the aim of using a batch application is to run at a quiet time of day, then triggering won't help. If the aim is to avoid some overhead (e.g. opening and closing a connection to a back-end resource) for every message, then triggering the batch application is a good option.



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    Doug Burns
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    Original Message


  • 17.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Tue July 01, 2025 12:26 PM

    Another thought here is IBM providing a Java equivalent of runmqtrm that can run in USS. I did that several years back and it gives us the ability to have a trigger monitor for z/OS IBM MQ in USS that can submit batch jobs, run Unix scripts, etc., if needed. Java is very portable and this approach could provide a runmqtrm that can be used in other environments, as well. 



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    Tim Zielke
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    Original Message


  • 18.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Sun January 25, 2026 07:07 AM

    Wayne long retired and probably nobody else wanted to support it.



    ------------------------------
    Robert (Bobbee) Broderick
    Senior WebSphere Consultant
    IBM
    Madison
    917-453-6790
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    Original Message


  • 19.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Wed January 28, 2026 11:56 AM

    Hi team, I think would be a good idea if IBM can incorporate to MQ product the "Batch Trigger Monitor" like we have CKTI (CICS) and CSQQTRMN (IMS). Why not?

    Regards,

    Alex



    ------------------------------
    Alexandre Mendes de Assis
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 20.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Wed January 28, 2026 07:47 PM

    Hi Alex,

    As noted in Matt's comment above, please vote on the Idea here: https://ideas.ibm.com/ideas/MESNS-I-871 to show your support.

    Cheers,
    Morag



    ------------------------------
    Morag Hughson
    MQ Technical Education Specialist
    MQGem Software Limited
    Website: https://www.mqgem.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 21.  RE: z/OS Batch Trigger Monitor

    Posted Wed January 28, 2026 10:44 PM
    Edited by Francois Brandelik Wed January 28, 2026 10:50 PM

    @Robert (Bobbee) Broderick: If memory is right, it was Wayne who was responsible for the support pack.

    @Morag Hughson: Thanks for the link. So voted.



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    Francois Brandelik
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    Original Message


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