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Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

Anonymous Member

Anonymous MemberThu November 16, 2023 12:09 PM

  • 1.  Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Mon November 13, 2023 11:12 AM

    Dear Planning Analytics community,

    I have encountered a situation that I could only describe as a bug, but maybe some of you have also seen such behaviour and know more.

    Concretely, this is my architecture:

    Source Cube

    Helper Cube

    Result Cube

    I have rules that feed values from the Source Cube to the Helper Cube, where I perform some adjustments and calculations on the data. Then I want to feed my Result Cube with the data, for which I also have rules.

    The first step Source Cube → Helper Cube works like a charm and as expected.

    But when trying to feed the data from my Helper Cube to my Result Cube, the aggregations are not working, leaving me with wrong (empty) values on the consolidated levels. Leaf element values are all correct.

    When I disable SKIPCHECK, the aggregations work as expected, which is an indicator that this is a Feeder issue.

    However, when I check the cells I can see that they are properly fed.

    Have any of your encountered this behaviour or any suggestions on how I might go on about solving it?

    Any tries to explicitely calculate the aggregations by rule have failed.

    I'm happy about any info and if you need further information or have questions/remarks, don't hesitate to contact me!

    Thank you and best regards,



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
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  • 2.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Mon November 13, 2023 11:35 AM

    Hi,

    You might try creating a TI using "CubeProcessFeeders" on the middle cube or even all three cubes in order (Source, Helper, Result).  If the feeders for the helper cube were reprocessed before the source cube, it is possible that the feeders were not passed on to the result cube.  However, using the inbuilt tools it will look for everything is fed correctly.



    ------------------------------
    Scott Brown
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Tue November 14, 2023 03:39 AM

    Dear Scott,

    Thank you for your input.

    I will try that and see if it helps my case.

    BR;



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Tue November 14, 2023 07:53 AM

    Hi Scott,

    Unfortunately, the TI didn't change anything in the values.

    If you have more ideas, please let me know!

    BR;



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Tue November 14, 2023 12:24 PM

    Hello !

    Did you try a TI with 

    CubeProcessFeeders(CubeName) for your three cubes ?

    Other, when I see your rules, I don't succed to Math Rules (in helper) and feeders in (Source).

    Your Measure "Flow_Source" is affected by rule only if :

     Country is the same as Costcenter

    Currency is the same as Costcenter

    Company is the same as Deprtement's CostCenter

    And then you take the value of Db (..........)

    The feeders must be the correlation of Your DB formula.

    Your feed formula use 'A' as second dimension, are you sure that 

    is the same thing ?

    regards,

    Philippe

     



    ------------------------------
    Philippe CHAMPLEBOUX+NEXT+DECISION
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  • 6.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Wed November 15, 2023 05:34 AM

    Dear Philippe,

    Thank you for your feedback.

    The 'A' is definitely the same thing, yes! The Helper and Source Cubes are actually behaving as expected. Values are being transferred and aggregated correctly.

    It is only when I try to feed the values to the Result Cube that the aggregations stop working. 

    Below you can see the rules of the Result Cube:

    And the Feeder in the Helper Cube:

    Let me know if you have further ideas!

    BR; 



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Mon November 13, 2023 11:42 AM

    Do you have any string-based conditional feeders in your Helper Cube?



    ------------------------------
    Vlad Didenko
    Founder at Succeedium
    TeamOne Google Sheets add-on for IBM Planning Analytics / TM1
    https://succeedium.com/teamone/
    Succeedium Planning Analytics Cloud Extension
    https://succeedium.com/space/
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Tue November 14, 2023 03:49 AM

    Dear Vlad,

    I have conditional feeders which make checks based on certain string values.

    In my Helper Cube the Rules look something like this:

    While the Feeder in the Source Cube looks like this:

    What role do string values play here?

    Thank you and best regards!



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Tue November 14, 2023 10:07 AM

    Hi Vedrana, since you mentioned the problem is with the unfed values in your "Result Cube", we need to look at the feeders in the "Helper Cube".

    I have conditional feeders which make checks based on certain string values.

    You have a normal feeder in the "Source Cube". Conditional feeders use IF statements

    What role do string values play here?

    String-based conditional feeders Those feeders may not re-fire automatically and may require to run CubeProcessFeeders as Scott suggested for the cubes containing the feeders (Source, Cube and Helper Cube). You can add CubeProcessFeeders to the Epilog of the process updating the attributes.

    You can also look at ForceReevaluationOfFeedersForFedCellsOnDataChange parameter, but it may have some performance impact.



    ------------------------------
    Vlad Didenko
    Founder at Succeedium
    TeamOne Google Sheets add-on for IBM Planning Analytics / TM1
    https://succeedium.com/teamone/
    Succeedium Planning Analytics Cloud Extension
    https://succeedium.com/space/
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Wed November 15, 2023 06:10 AM

    Hi Vlad,

    You are right, in my Feeders I don't have conditions, only in my rules.

    As for the Feeders in my Helper Cube, they look like this:

    Quite unspectacular.

    Thank you for the idea with the ForceReevaluationOfFeedersForFedCellsOnDataChange parameter. Unfortunately, it had no effect.

    Please let me know, if you have further ideas.

    BR;



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Wed November 15, 2023 09:06 AM

    Dear Vedrana,

    I believe the issue seems to be in the department to cost center mapping in the feeders from the source cube to target cube. I see a reference to !department, but does a department element name correspond to a cost center element name? Considering the manipulation that you do to retrieve the company in your helper cube (using Costcenter_Code attribute in your department dimension) it seems this is not a 1-on-1 element name mapping. Please be aware that with this approach you need to recalculate the feeders when the Currency, Country and Company attributes change. This is certainly not a bug.

    Kind regards,

    Luc



    ------------------------------
    Luc Cusiel
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Wed November 15, 2023 09:11 AM

    Dear Luc,

    I appreciate your input.

    The mapping is sound - I have tested this multiple times and again - everything works as expected between Source and Helper. 

    It is only in the Result Cube that the aggregations don't work.

    However, I managed to get them to work by writing Feeders for the Result Cube in my Source Cubes. 

    This has also made my architecture a lot more complex and more difficult to maintain.

    Do you know if this TM1 behaviour is by design? I would expect that the Feeders in the Helper Cube are sufficient as I'm only directly feeding from this cube and only indirectly from the Source Cube.

    BR;



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Wed November 15, 2023 09:51 AM

    Hi Vedrana,

    It should be enough to feed from the helper cube as long as the cells in the helper cube as fed correctly. However, the best choice of where to put the feeders depends on the dimensionality of the cubes. I also don't understand why you need a helper cube, if you only need to make adjustments and some calculations. Why not include this functionality in the design of source cube?

    Kind regards,

    Luc



    ------------------------------
    Luc Cusiel
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Wed November 15, 2023 09:59 AM

    Dear Luc,

    Thank you for your quick reply.

    "However, the best choice of where to put the feeders depends on the dimensionality of the cubes"

    Would you be so kind as to elaborate on this part?

    "If you only need to make adjustments and some calculations. Why not include this functionality in the design of source cube?"

    The dimensions between the Source and the Result cube vary a lot - the structure of the two cubes is quite different and the Helper Cube serves as a matching structure for them.

    To include the functionality in the Source Cube, I'd have to rebuild it from Scratch and change ALL the reports that are based on it (not feasible). Additionally, it would have a performance impact on my Source Cube, which I'm also trying to avoid as performance is the reason I've started this whole exercise.

    I appreciate your help.

    BR; 



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Wed November 15, 2023 10:45 AM

    Hi Vedrana,

    I've just reviewed your feeders again from the helper cube to the result cube, but to me it seems strange that you include a reference to the cost center dimension twice. This would mean that you have a duplicate of the cost center dimension in your Result cube where if you select a cost center on one dimension, you need to select the same cost center in the other dimension to encounter a value. I guess one of the references to the cost center dimension needs to be "Total CostCenter".

    Setting up a design where the dimensions between source and target cube differ a lot always comes with an "overfeeding" penalty impacting the performance if you try to set it up with rules and feeders. Have you also considered a Turbo Integrator based approach?

    Kind regards,

    Luc



    ------------------------------
    Luc Cusiel
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Mon November 20, 2023 03:16 AM

    Dear Luc,

    I appreciate your input so far and your patience.

    Indeed - I have the costcenter dimension in a way twice in my model - however, the dimensions have different structures and it was required to introduce this for a business need.

    "I guess one of the references to the cost center dimension needs to be "Total CostCenter"."

    Could you tell me in which rule or feeder exactly you'd expect that?

    Have you also considered a Turbo Integrator based approach?

    Yes, we are considering it. Rule based is the preferred way, so we are trying to make it work and then check performance. Should it turn out that this is not viable we'd have to turn to TI, correct.

    Thank you again for your feedback and advice!

    BR;



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Tue November 14, 2023 09:17 AM

    Hi Vedrana,

    Have you tried feeding the result cube from the source cube directly?

    Saludos.

    José Luis Señas Cuesta

    Analítica de Datos

     

    Oficina: +52 55 5282 7300 x 7391

    Movil: +52 55 5478 0371

    ibm_modeler

     


    K-C Internal Only






  • 18.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Tue November 14, 2023 09:35 AM

    Hi !

    Thank you for your reply.

    This is not possible as the structures are too different, which is why I have the Helper Cube in the first place.

    It might be possible with a Feeder that is very large, but I would like to avoid this due to performance reasons.

    Thanks again and let me know if you have any other clues.

    BR



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Wed November 15, 2023 08:53 AM

    Dear Jose,

    After everything else failed, I ended up writing Feeders in my Source Cubes, which has indeed solved the aggregation issue. 

    Thank you for your input on this!

    However, it has also made my architecture a lot more complex and more difficult to maintain.
    Do you know if this TM1 behaviour is by design? I would expect that the Feeders in the Helper Cube are sufficient as I'm only directly feeding from this cube and only indirectly from the Source Cube.

    BR;



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Wed November 15, 2023 10:22 AM

    Hi Vedrana,

    As mentioned here by Luc and others, it is necessary to review the structure of the three cubes in order to be able to give a better suggestion.

    In my experience, placing the feeders as straightforward and simple as possible, is usually the best option.

    Saludos.

    José Luis Señas Cuesta

    Analítica de Datos

     

    Oficina: +52 55 5282 7300 x 7391

    Movil: +52 55 5478 0371

    ibm_modeler

     


    K-C Internal Only






  • 21.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Thu November 16, 2023 02:15 AM

    Hi Vedrana,

    Couple of things make me think its a dimension element vs dimension alias that causes the feeder to not work between those dimensions not shared. eg. costcentre and department.

    eg.

    Costcentre:CC1 (alias London)  >>>  Department:London   (The rule will work but the feeder will not)

    You'd have to add an ATTRS('Costcentre', !Costcentre, 'Alias') to the feeder.

    Cheers

    Karl Blackler

    Head of Product Development

    Cortell Australia Pty Limited



    ------------------------------
    Karl Blackler
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Mon November 20, 2023 03:25 AM

    Dear Karl,

    I assume it is the similarity between Department and Costcenter that makes you think that. However, these are different dimensions independent of each other.

    Nevertheless, I have rechecked my rules and feeders just in case and assured that I am using the element names ONLY and no aliases.

    That has not been an issue.

    Let me know if you have further ideas!

    Thank you and BR;



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Mon November 20, 2023 03:55 AM

    Dear Jose,

    I appreciate your input and agree with you - as straightforward as possible is the best approach.

    The structures of the three Cubes look like this:

    Source_Cube
    - Department
    - Planningcycle
    - Currency
    - Datatype
    - Year
    - Month
    - Planningmeasure_Department

    Helper_Cube
    - Measure
    - Area
    - Currency
    - Year
    - Month
    - Country
    - Company
    - Measuremapping
    - Costcenter

    Result_Cube
    - Costcenter
    - Planningcycle
    - Currency
    - Datatype
    - Year
    - Month
    - Country
    - Company
    - CM_Structure_Costcenter
    - Planningmeasure

    Let me know if you come up with some other advice/ideas that could result in this behaviour.

    Thank you and have a nice day!

    BR; 



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Mon November 20, 2023 06:52 AM

    Hi Vedrana

    Thanks for posting the structure. I do have one question with regards to the measures in Helper and Results cubes. Helper has a "Flow_x_Share" measure - is this a leaf element or a consolidated element? Result PlanningMeasure also has a "Flow_x_Share" measure which is clearly a leaf element. 

    If the Helper Measure is a consolidation and not a leaf, then the leaves would be triggered at leaf level, and would thus not find a valid measure in the Result cube. Does that help?

    Guessing a bit at the dimension structures, but this is one reason why your feeders might not work. 

    Cheers

    Johann



    ------------------------------
    Johann Kassier
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  • 25.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Mon November 20, 2023 06:55 AM

    Sorry about the typo  - second para should have read:
    "If the Helper Measure is a consolidation and not a leaf, then the FEEDERS would be triggered at leaf level in the helper cube, and would thus not find a valid measure (Flow_X_Share) in the Result cube. "



    ------------------------------
    Johann Kassier
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  • 26.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Mon November 20, 2023 07:00 AM

    Dear Johannes,

    I appreciate your input.

    "Unfortunately", the Flow_x_Share measure is a leaf measure, so that can't be the culprit.

    However, you made me think - I am matching the elements of Planningmeasure Dimension with the elements in the Measuremapping Dimension. In the Planningmeasure Dimensions the elements are Leaf elements, but in the Measuremapping Dimensions they are Consolidated elements.

    Could this also have an effect? I did not expect this to be an issue.

    Thank you so much for your feedback!

    BR; 



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Mon November 20, 2023 07:08 AM

    Yes that will have an impact. Feeders are triggered at leaf level. Assume the following elements in your dimensions:
    Measure Mapping:
    C My Total

      Leaf 1

      Leaf 2

    Then in Planning measure we have a leaf called "My Total".
    If you try feed from My Total, the feeders are triggered for the leaves under "my Total" consolidation, and will thus try to feed Planning Measures "Leaf 1" and "leaf 2". 
    If there aren't many measures (and the dimension is static), add specific feeders from "My Total" to "My Total" (code it into both sides of the feeder). If there are many measures, add an attribute to the MappingMeasures dimension that shows the "My Total" and feed to that Attribute. 

    Hope that makes sense?

    Johann



    ------------------------------
    Johann Kassier
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Mon November 20, 2023 10:33 AM

    Dear Johann,

    Thank you for this useful input!

    I have adapted the Feeder in the Helper Cube to this:

    And this seems to have really helped as it appears to be working now. I have restarted the whole TM1 server as well as reprocessed the feeders, but the aggregations keep working correctly!

    I still have to make a couple more checks, but I appreciate your nudge and feedback a lot!

    Thanks and BR;



    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------
    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
    Posted Thu November 16, 2023 12:09 PM
    Edited by NICK PLOWDEN Sun December 10, 2023 05:56 PM
    This post was removed


  • 30.  RE: Possible reasons why cube cells are not being aggregated, even though they are fed?

    Posted Fri November 17, 2023 02:02 AM

    Hi Usama,

    This message looks entirely written by ChatGPT or some other language model.

    Please refrain from further cluttering this post.

    If you have anything to add to my specific problem, I'm interested to hear.

    Thank you and BR



    ------------------------------
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    Vedrana Tomic
    Business Partner
    PM Factory Consulting
    Vienna
    ------------------------------
    ------------------------------