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federation advanced config param kess.crlInterval

  • 1.  federation advanced config param kess.crlInterval

    Posted Mon February 04, 2019 11:06 AM
    Hi community,

    I am a bit confused by the federation module documentation for an advanced configuration property: kess.crlInterval.

    Documentation states the following:

    The amount of time, in seconds, between successive CRL checks. Using an interval of time between CRL checks reduces the performance impact of doing the checks every time a certificate needs to be validated.

    A value less than or equal to zero means that the runtime performs a CRL check every time it wants to use a certificate. The default is 0 seconds.

    If kess.crlEnabled is set to false, this value is ignored. Data type: Integer

    Example: 86400
    This value means that a CRL check on a certificate is performed once per day.


    Does this mean that a specific certificate is checked once every configured period when used (e.g.: Federation module keeps track of which certificates have been crl-checked and at what time) or does this mean that the federation module will try to check if there is a new CRL available (and try to download it) whenever a certificate is to be validated?

    Given the default of 0, I'd suppose the former is the case, but I just wanted to be sure.

    Thanks in advance

    ------------------------------
    Kristof Goossens
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: federation advanced config param kess.crlInterval

    Posted Tue February 05, 2019 02:13 AM
    Hi Kristof,

    We are currently in the process of activating that caching feature, so this question is also very interesting for us.

    What I can tell you about the behavior when the caching is disabled is that it creates quite a few requests to the CRL endpoints.
    From what I measured last week, with the type of certificates used by our Federation (with Luxtrust as IDP):
    - displaying the login form : 1 CRL check
    - SAML callback (after sucessfull login) : 6 CRL checks (one for every certificate involved I suppose)


    I am also going to hijack this thread to ask about OCSP checks. I am unable to find any option or documentation related to using OCSP instead of CRL for Federation. Is it something that isn't yet implemented on ISAM ? Have you seen something about OCSP somewhere Kristof ?

    ------------------------------
    André Leruitte
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: federation advanced config param kess.crlInterval

    Posted Tue February 05, 2019 03:13 AM
    Hi André,

    I did not find anything OCSP related. That's why I think the tuning of the CRL parameters are important. Especially with the belgian eID PKI (It's getting better, but they used to grow over 10M each!).

    You say you see a lot of requests to the CRL endpoints and than talk about "CRL checks". Did you mean it's downloading the full CRL 7 times in your scenario?

    An OCSP alternative would be great! If someone from IBM could confirm this is not availabe yet, we should all file an RFE ;-)

    Kristof

    ------------------------------
    Kristof Goossens
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: federation advanced config param kess.crlInterval

    Posted Tue February 05, 2019 04:03 AM
    Dear community,

    I filed an RFE for OCSP support in the federation module.
    Could you all be so kind to vote for this RFE?

    It would be greatly appreciated!
    ​​

    ------------------------------
    Kristof Goossens
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: federation advanced config param kess.crlInterval

    Posted Tue February 05, 2019 03:21 AM
    Edited by Jon Harry Tue February 05, 2019 03:23 AM
    Hello,

    WebSEAL does support OCSP.  It can be enabled in ssl stanza.  I didn't find text description of function in docs but configuration entries are listed in ssl stanza:

    https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/search/Ocsp?scope=SSPREK_9.0.6

    Jon.

    ------------------------------
    Jon Harry
    Consulting IT Security Specialist
    IBM
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: federation advanced config param kess.crlInterval

    Posted Tue February 05, 2019 03:31 AM
    Hi Jon,

    Webseal support OCSP indeed, but here it is about the Federation module that doesnt seem to support OCSP at all.

    Kristof : I confirm, for a successfull login, the Federation module downloads 7 times the full CRL.
    that why we need to enable the caching feature.

    ------------------------------
    André Leruitte
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: federation advanced config param kess.crlInterval

    Posted Tue February 05, 2019 03:38 AM
    Hi John,

    As André mentioned: we are looking for a way to speed up certificate revocation checks in the federation module.
    I found some info on a known limitations page, so I suppose no OCSP is available in the federation module?

    Which brings me back to my initial question: how to interpret the documentation on the kess.crlInterval parameter?

    Thx in advance

    ------------------------------
    Kristof Goossens
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: federation advanced config param kess.crlInterval

    Posted Tue February 05, 2019 04:41 AM
    Sorry Kristof, I tried voting for the RFE, but as always RFE's are private.
    Nobody can vote for another person's RFE (which makes the voting feature useless....)

    I someone from IBM can upvote the RFE for me, I would be grateful :)

    ------------------------------
    André Leruitte
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: federation advanced config param kess.crlInterval

    Posted Tue February 05, 2019 04:53 AM
    Hello,

    First of all, sorry for not recognizing this was a federation question.  I shouldn't try to answer questions on my phone over breakfast!

    As noted, Security RFEs are always marked private; they cannot be voted for.  The answer is for each person who needs the feature to open their own RFE.  The number of RFEs for a particular feature is taken into account in decision-making process.

    Jon.

    ------------------------------
    Jon Harry
    Consulting IT Security Specialist
    IBM
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: federation advanced config param kess.crlInterval

    Posted Wed February 06, 2019 02:00 AM
    Thx for elaborating, Jon.

    So community, could you please create as much RFE's for this as possible? :)

    In an effort to take as little of your time as possible, I 'll organise some copy-paste fields below to  do so:

    File an RFE here

    headline: OCSP support in federation module
    priority: high
    Brand: security
    product family: security
    product: IBM Security Access Manager
    component: Product functionality
    OS: IBM Appliance

    description:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    OCSP check for federation module.

    It would be nice to have the possibility to configure OCSP checks for certificates used in federation module. Currently it looks like only CRL checks are enabled which could have a negative aspect on authentication duration.

    There are advanced configuration parameters kess.crlEnabled and kess.crlInterval that can tune it a bit, but over all, OCSP would be vastly preferable.

    Seems like it's a known issue @IBM as I found it documented in a list of known limitations: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSPREK_9.0.6/com.ibm.isam.doc/productoverview/concept/known_limitations.html
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    use case:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    When authenticating using a SAML federation, CRL checks are performed for signing and encryption certificates for each SAML message.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    business justification:
    Authentication slows down due to lack of OCSP support in case of federated authentications.

    Thx for your support!

    ------------------------------
    Kristof Goossens
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: federation advanced config param kess.crlInterval

    Posted Fri February 08, 2019 01:26 AM
    Just want to come back to the initial question in case anybody else is interested.

    I had this fine gentleman from IBM responding privately to me, confirming that CRLs are not cached locally and so whenever a certificate is checked against a CRL, a new version of that CRL is downloaded.

    The parameter kess.crlInterval determines the time to cache a "CRL decision" for a given cert.

    So to wrap it all up: When a CRL check is executed, the CRL is downloaded *each time*. Triggering the download by validating a specific certificate can be prevented by caching the CRL check decision for a period of time, specified in the kess.crlInterval advanced configuration parameter.
    Note that multiple certificates, sharing the same issuing CA could still trigger a download of the CRL before the kess.crlInterval time has passed by since the last download.

    This feels counter-intuitive to me. I would expect a CRL system to work as follows: CRLs are downloaded in the background on regular bases and anyway before they expire. There should be a parameter that lets you control the interval of downloading a CRL. Than, whenever a certificate needs to be validated, the CRL check is performed against the local copy of the CRL.

    Additionally, it would be great if you could disable CRL (or OCSP for that matter) checking for specific certificates. In general, CRL checking is important, but in SAML integrations, I think it's acceptable to use selfsigned certificates (or certificates that are signed by some internal CA that does not provide OCSP or CRL distribution points that are publicly available).
    The reason is because in SAML integrations, you trust the certificate itself rather than the CA and a property identifying the certificate. So if a certificate used for signing or encrypting SAML messages gets compromised and the admin wants to revoke it, (s)he will need to replace the cert and inform the partners anyway, as they need to trust the new certificate.

    In a scenario where some partners insist in using certificates without OCSP/CRL distribution point, it would be interesting to disable OCSP/CRL checking *for those certificates only* while still performing revocation validation for all others where it *is* possible to do.

    If you don't agree with this reasoning, I would be more than interested in hearing your point of view!

    I added that idea of exceptions to my RFE as a comment. If you agree, it may be a good idea to add it to your RFE if anybody is still filing one for the OCSP functionality :)

    Have a nice day.

    ------------------------------
    Kristof Goossens
    ------------------------------