Db2

ย View Only
Expand all | Collapse all

DB2 vs PostgreSQL

  • 1.  DB2 vs PostgreSQL

    Posted 7 days ago

    With regard to 2 recent (for me) posts I came across, DB2 versus PostgreSQL: A comparative performance analysis for transactional workloads and Comparing the Performance of DB2 12.1 vs. PostgreSQL the first thought that came to my mind was if DB2 12.1 is so good, why isn't it being compared with its primary competitors i.e. Oracle and SQL Server, AFAIK but I have been wrong before, everyday according to some ๐Ÿ˜„

    IBM Looking like a playground bully picking on the little opensource kid while cowering from the big kids on the block โ€ฆ

    What do you think, am I being unfair? Or just too honest?

    Regards
    Bruce
    --

    P.S. Asking the "AI Search Assistant" was truly a disservice to "AI" and didn't provided any concrete or worthwhile information, just fluff! The man in the street would be rightfully asking themselves what is the point of lighting the planet on fire to provide energy to run AI when a 3 year old would provide a more honest and meaningful response i.e. I don't know!



    ------------------------------
    Bruce Williamson
    Senior DB2 for z/OS DBA
    Commonwealth Bank of Australia
    Sydney NSW
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: DB2 vs PostgreSQL

    Posted 7 days ago
    Maybe that would have been the case 10 years ago. 

    But you'll find that the big cloud providers / hyperscalers such as AWS and Google are basing their primary OLTP relational database offering on Postgresql.  So it is very much "the competition" these days. 





  • 3.  RE: DB2 vs PostgreSQL

    Posted 7 days ago

    What's their market share today?

     

    Cheers

    Bruce

    --

     






  • 4.  RE: DB2 vs PostgreSQL

    Posted 7 days ago

    Here you go:

    https://db-engines.com/en/ranking

    This pretty much confirms Phil's point :-)

    Good news seeing DB2 scoring some green numbers!

    Cheers, Damir



    ------------------------------
    Damir Wilder
    Senior Consultant
    Triton Consulting
    London
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: DB2 vs PostgreSQL

    Posted 7 days ago

    Thanks Damir, that's mostly fluff IMHO, the true measure IMO would be something or many things related to business value i.e. $$$ or license fees or percent of S&P 500 company penetration for core OLTP & batch or the like ...

     

    Maybe I'm just old school ...

     

    Cheers

    Bruce

    --

     






  • 6.  RE: DB2 vs PostgreSQL

    Posted 7 days ago

    The why IBM or can't compare their RDBMS to Oracle is due to the Oracle License which states you can't, or you could be sued.   In fact many such RDBMS now have the same legal clause in their licensing.   This is what basically shut down Transactional Processing Console where Comparisons were opening published.   By far on the distributive system Oracle was the key leader until other RDBMS start publishing their results on TPC.  That is when Oracle change the licensing to prevent comparisons by the competition or any one doing independent studies.   From business preceptive that decision made a lot of sense.   



    ------------------------------
    Douglas Partch
    CEO
    Database Nerds
    Omaha NE
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: DB2 vs PostgreSQL

    Posted 7 days ago

    Devious SOBs ... ๐Ÿ˜ณ

     

    Cheers

    Bruce

    --

     






  • 8.  RE: DB2 vs PostgreSQL

    Posted 7 days ago

    I'm surprised the marketing genius' haven't jumped on that with a view to say this is an admission of guilt regarding Oracle's worse performance i.e. "Oracle are running scared and don't want you to know how poorly their database performs against DB2, etc., etc., etc.." unless of course IBM have the same clause



    ------------------------------
    Bruce Williamson
    Senior DB2 for z/OS DBA
    Commonwealth Bank of Australia
    Sydney NSW
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: DB2 vs PostgreSQL

    Posted 6 days ago

    Not sure what the Transactional Processing Console is . . .

     

    However . . .

    TPC is the Transaction Processing Performance Council.

    www.tpc.org

    They still have benchmark activity going on.

    It's a very useful site.

     

    Terry Mason

    **********************************************************************
    This email (and any attachments) may contain privileged / confidential information. If youโ€™re not the intended recipient please donโ€™t disclose, copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If youโ€™ve received this message in error, please reply and tell us and then delete it. Should you email us, we canโ€™t guarantee the security of your data outside our own computer systems. For our protection, incoming emails will be automatically scanned. Any information contained in this message may be subject to applicable terms and conditions and must not be construed as giving investment advice within or outside the United Kingdom.

    Legal & General Group plc is registered under company number 01417162 and is a holding company.

    The following subsidiary companies of Legal & General Group Plc are authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority:
    Legal & General (Unit Trust Managers) Limited, registered number 1009418
    Legal & General (Portfolio Management Services) Limited, registered number 2457525
    Legal & General Investment Management Ltd , registered number 02091894
    Legal & General Property Limited, registered number 02091897
    Legal & General Partnership Services Limited, registered number 05045000
    LGIM Real Assets (Operator) Limited, registered number 05522016
    LGGP Management Limited, registered number 10962628.
    Legal and General Financial Advice Limited, registered number 11901252
    Legal & General Home Finance Limited, registered number 04896447
    Investment Discounts On Line Limited, registered number 04231834

    The following subsidiary companies of Legal & General Group plc are authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority.
    Legal & General Assurance Society Limited, registered number 0166055
    Legal & General Assurance (Pensions Management) Limited, registered number 01006112.

    All the above companies in the Legal & General group are registered in England and Wales and their registered office is One Coleman Street London EC2R 5AA.
    Full details can be found at legalandgeneral.com

     *********************************************************************





  • 10.  RE: DB2 vs PostgreSQL

    Posted 7 days ago

    Purely anecdotal rather than hard evidence but our experience is that customers who are currently using Db2 and feeling the pinch, are looking at PostgreSQL as a viable alternative. We're in active discussions with large blue-chip customers looking at moving highly-transactional databases from Db2 on AWS to PostgreSQL. Now, personally, I don't think that's necessarily a good idea; I think they will not only suffer a performance hit but will actually lose some functionality (e.g. HADR). Unless, of course, they are going to pay someone like EDB for the extended capability PostgreSQL (Enterprise Server).

    And talking of EDB, they have clearly put a lot of effort into providing as seamless an Oracle to PostgreSQL migration offering as is possible. So it's not just Db2 that is in the PostgreSQL cross-hairs.



    ------------------------------
    Mark Gillis
    Principal Consultant
    Triton Consulting
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: DB2 vs PostgreSQL

    Posted 7 days ago

    It must be a lot cheaper than DB2 to warrant that sort of investment you'd think โ€ฆ



    ------------------------------
    Bruce Williamson
    Senior DB2 for z/OS DBA
    Commonwealth Bank of Australia
    Sydney NSW
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: DB2 vs PostgreSQL

    Posted 7 days ago
    In my experience. cost often doesn't get consider.

    The cloud providers' media machine is very strong.   The key messages are essentially "cloud is modern" (meaning anything else is "old") and "cloud is cheap" (meaning anything else is "expensive").

    Of course nobody wants to miss the boat, so most places are jumping onto that bandwagon, often without assessing the true costs.   

    Probably the biggest surprise to many people (often too late) are the "egress charges"  - every byte which moves from the cloud provider to the outside world, and sometimes even to another region within the provider must be paid for.   So if the person who is reading your database gets the results on his local machine, or an on premise server that costs money.     

    Another area not often considered is how to get the same level of high availability that they've come to expect from (for example) HADR or PureScale. 

    There is also a degree of loss of control.   That's particularly true for anything other than IaaS, where you are reliant on whatever the cloud provider exposes to you in terms of functionality (often a lot less than the underlying product is capable of).  For example, point in time recovery to any point of your choice - that will probably cost you extra if it is available at all.

    I'm seeing in the media that some people are starting to wake up to some of these issues.  One recent example was that the company who originated the Ruby on Rails framework has gone back to on premise and reduced their cost by about 90% (from memory).   But the examples of this are mostly the most tech-savvy companies.   

    I think the cloud providers rely on the fact that once an application / database moves to their platform the company who does it will probably lose the people who have the skills to take it back again.   If AWS / Azure / Google manages your installations and patching then why should you retain your own people with these skills ...

    I'm not saying that cloud services don't have a place.   But my personal belief is that the sweet spot for cloud hosting is where the resources are short term.  Either that means additional capacity for busy times, extra development servers or short lived applications e.g. for a special sales campaign.  For systems that have to be available 24x7x365 the costs just don't stack up, even if you factor in the costs of having your own staff.

    One interesting twist in this whole tale is that there appears to be a big upturn in interest on hosting containerized apps on zLinux, using Kubernetes or its derivatives like OpenShift.   If you have a mainframe and can dedicate some of that resource to zLinux then essentially you have a very scaleable "private cloud" infrastructure that is capable of hosting the same applications that would run in a containerized environment on the cloud providers.  

    Another thing that has become clear to me is that you can't treat cloud hosted databases in the same way as you treat cloud hosted applications.  The big difference is that you can typically throw away an app server and rebuild it from scratch fairly easily.   But you can't do that with a database server or you will lose all your data.   Unfortunately the people normally running cloud migrations are application people with an application mentality, which can be catastrophic for your data.

    It's an interesting time.   Personally I'm running both Db2 and PostgreSQL on my local (Linux) laptop here - and am learning how to move data and databases both ways.   I think that knowledge is going to come in useful over the next few years - and particularly how to bring data from PG into Db2 (HINT : federation and "LOAD FROM CURSOR" is likely to be your best friend).

    Phil









  • 13.  RE: DB2 vs PostgreSQL

    Posted 6 days ago

    Great insights Phil and I have to concur pretty much 100%, there seem to be a lot of non-tech people (think "management types") making tech decisions based on perceived $$$ savings touted by salespeople, which typically come back to bite organisations long after said decision makers have collected their bonuses and jumped ship ... รง anecdotally anyway ๐Ÿ˜…

     

    Hopefully I'll be long gone before this comes full circle again ...

     

    Cheers

    Bruce

    --