Blueworks Live

I think (I would defer to the Blueworks experts) that there is only one 'Normal' ad-hoc start point for a process as without any other trigger you can only truly start a process in one way rather than multiple, you would then model gateways to derive the logic of the subsequent steps.

However, you can have multiple 'Timer' trigger start points on your diagram (e.g. do this at 3AM, do that at 7AM, do another thing at 12PM) and also multiple 'message' trigger start points these can be linked to specific outbound message events in other processes in your Blueworks library.

In our company best practice we use the 'Message' start point to indicate a transaction between processes and systems (e.g. an API call, an technical event based trigger, natural process followed through handled by in-system automation but viewed by the business as separate processes etc...) as well as regular email type messages (though these are better noted using boundary event on a given activity. It feels misappropriating to call this 'Message' trigger in our use case and per BPMN2.0 a 'Signal' event is possibly more appropriate if we were aligning to the standard.

Would love to hear others views on this as it is a common question in our regular newbie training...

------------------------------
Simon Lant
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Tue June 28, 2022 03:18 PM
From: David Teran
Subject: BWL Question

Greetings, I've been always wanted to know the following

 

Why is it NOT possible to create a Blueprint that has 2 NORMAL starting points?

 

Thank you

David

Hello David,  
BWL does support multiple start events when it is valid to do so.  Scroll down the following post:

Alternative Start Events: https://www.blueworkslive.com/scr/home#!posts:c41079660

------------------------------
Wayne Bird
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Tue June 28, 2022 03:18 PM
From: David Teran
Subject: BWL Question

Greetings, I've been always wanted to know the following

 

Why is it NOT possible to create a Blueprint that has 2 NORMAL starting points?

 

Thank you

David

I have to agree with Simon - if you have correctly identified a single whole business process, there is typically only one start event. Genuine multiple triggers are rare, although they do occur. But generally when people identify multiple triggers, it's because they are really looking at something larger or smaller than a single whole business process, eg a functional task done by one area or a system task like Issue Payment these can be performed in the context of multiple business processes, so appear to have multiple triggers.

It's telling, I think, that the example given in the Blueworks release notes provided by Wayne shows splitting a single event into two, by channel. It's actually the same event, an order is submitted, it's just there are multiple channels available to do it - and where aren't there multiple channels these days? But the event is the same - events and channels are not the same thing (at a business process level, only at a system level, so that's an IT thinking influence I would suggest). So its a personal modelling choice I guess whether you show that as two start events, or use another approach, eg link channel scenarios as lower level models to the first task, that maybe should be Submit Order, because that's part of the process and the organisation would be providing the interface/s to do so, across all relevant channels.

------------------------------
Penny Fisher
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Tue June 28, 2022 03:18 PM
From: David Teran
Subject: BWL Question

Greetings, I've been always wanted to know the following

 

Why is it NOT possible to create a Blueprint that has 2 NORMAL starting points?

 

Thank you

David

We also generally use a message start event in our modelling standard unless a time event applies, because its good practice to type your events, but mainly because you can't put any attributes or documentation/narrative behind an untyped event.

------------------------------
Penny Fisher
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Thu June 30, 2022 02:44 AM
From: Penny Fisher
Subject: BWL Question

I have to agree with Simon - if you have correctly identified a single whole business process, there is typically only one start event. Genuine multiple triggers are rare, although they do occur. But generally when people identify multiple triggers, it's because they are really looking at something larger or smaller than a single whole business process, eg a functional task done by one area or a system task like Issue Payment these can be performed in the context of multiple business processes, so appear to have multiple triggers.

It's telling, I think, that the example given in the Blueworks release notes provided by Wayne shows splitting a single event into two, by channel. It's actually the same event, an order is submitted, it's just there are multiple channels available to do it - and where aren't there multiple channels these days? But the event is the same - events and channels are not the same thing (at a business process level, only at a system level, so that's an IT thinking influence I would suggest). So its a personal modelling choice I guess whether you show that as two start events, or use another approach, eg link channel scenarios as lower level models to the first task, that maybe should be Submit Order, because that's part of the process and the organisation would be providing the interface/s to do so, across all relevant channels.

------------------------------
Penny Fisher

Original Message:
Sent: Tue June 28, 2022 03:18 PM
From: David Teran
Subject: BWL Question

Greetings, I've been always wanted to know the following

 

Why is it NOT possible to create a Blueprint that has 2 NORMAL starting points?

 

Thank you

David

The original question is really just a technical one. Working with a client that is leveraging Blueworks Live to map current state processes (no intention of taking the processes to a Workflow Automation Platform). Many people use Blueworks Live simply to model and have a repository for processes. I modeled a process for the question. The client wishes to show 2 different roles (swimlanes) that manually and ad hoc (NORMAL Start Event) have the ability to start the process (no timer and no message event applicable here). The client fully understands the purpose of the timer and message events start events

And yes, fully aware there are different ways to model and document this. 

Appreciate the responses and thank you
David 



------------------------------
David Teran
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Thu June 30, 2022 02:56 AM
From: Penny Fisher
Subject: BWL Question

We also generally use a message start event in our modelling standard unless a time event applies, because its good practice to type your events, but mainly because you can't put any attributes or documentation/narrative behind an untyped event.

------------------------------
Penny Fisher

Original Message:
Sent: Thu June 30, 2022 02:44 AM
From: Penny Fisher
Subject: BWL Question

I have to agree with Simon - if you have correctly identified a single whole business process, there is typically only one start event. Genuine multiple triggers are rare, although they do occur. But generally when people identify multiple triggers, it's because they are really looking at something larger or smaller than a single whole business process, eg a functional task done by one area or a system task like Issue Payment these can be performed in the context of multiple business processes, so appear to have multiple triggers.

It's telling, I think, that the example given in the Blueworks release notes provided by Wayne shows splitting a single event into two, by channel. It's actually the same event, an order is submitted, it's just there are multiple channels available to do it - and where aren't there multiple channels these days? But the event is the same - events and channels are not the same thing (at a business process level, only at a system level, so that's an IT thinking influence I would suggest). So its a personal modelling choice I guess whether you show that as two start events, or use another approach, eg link channel scenarios as lower level models to the first task, that maybe should be Submit Order, because that's part of the process and the organisation would be providing the interface/s to do so, across all relevant channels.

------------------------------
Penny Fisher

Original Message:
Sent: Tue June 28, 2022 03:18 PM
From: David Teran
Subject: BWL Question

Greetings, I've been always wanted to know the following

 

Why is it NOT possible to create a Blueprint that has 2 NORMAL starting points?

 

Thank you

David

Makes sense David, equally in my use cases we are using Blueworks standalone.
Here is how I think I would approach your scenario. Have a single normal start point, then use the flow line tool to connect that start point to more than one activity and connect up to the subsequent activity, delete the intermediate lines between "Submit Request" and "Submit Manager Request".

------------------------------
Simon Lant
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Thu June 30, 2022 09:49 AM
From: David Teran
Subject: BWL Question

The original question is really just a technical one. Working with a client that is leveraging Blueworks Live to map current state processes (no intention of taking the processes to a Workflow Automation Platform). Many people use Blueworks Live simply to model and have a repository for processes. I modeled a process for the question. The client wishes to show 2 different roles (swimlanes) that manually and ad hoc (NORMAL Start Event) have the ability to start the process (no timer and no message event applicable here). The client fully understands the purpose of the timer and message events start events

And yes, fully aware there are different ways to model and document this. 

Appreciate the responses and thank you
David 



------------------------------
David Teran

Original Message:
Sent: Thu June 30, 2022 02:56 AM
From: Penny Fisher
Subject: BWL Question

We also generally use a message start event in our modelling standard unless a time event applies, because its good practice to type your events, but mainly because you can't put any attributes or documentation/narrative behind an untyped event.

------------------------------
Penny Fisher

Original Message:
Sent: Thu June 30, 2022 02:44 AM
From: Penny Fisher
Subject: BWL Question

I have to agree with Simon - if you have correctly identified a single whole business process, there is typically only one start event. Genuine multiple triggers are rare, although they do occur. But generally when people identify multiple triggers, it's because they are really looking at something larger or smaller than a single whole business process, eg a functional task done by one area or a system task like Issue Payment these can be performed in the context of multiple business processes, so appear to have multiple triggers.

It's telling, I think, that the example given in the Blueworks release notes provided by Wayne shows splitting a single event into two, by channel. It's actually the same event, an order is submitted, it's just there are multiple channels available to do it - and where aren't there multiple channels these days? But the event is the same - events and channels are not the same thing (at a business process level, only at a system level, so that's an IT thinking influence I would suggest). So its a personal modelling choice I guess whether you show that as two start events, or use another approach, eg link channel scenarios as lower level models to the first task, that maybe should be Submit Order, because that's part of the process and the organisation would be providing the interface/s to do so, across all relevant channels.

------------------------------
Penny Fisher

Original Message:
Sent: Tue June 28, 2022 03:18 PM
From: David Teran
Subject: BWL Question

Greetings, I've been always wanted to know the following

 

Why is it NOT possible to create a Blueprint that has 2 NORMAL starting points?

 

Thank you

David

Original Message:
Sent: 6/30/2022 10:05:00 AM
From: Simon Lant
Subject: RE: BWL Question

Makes sense David, equally in my use cases we are using Blueworks standalone.
Here is how I think I would approach your scenario. Have a single normal start point, then use the flow line tool to connect that start point to more than one activity and connect up to the subsequent activity, delete the intermediate lines between "Submit Request" and "Submit Manager Request".

Blueworks lets you do this, just a bit clunky! :)

------------------------------
Simon Lant
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Thu June 30, 2022 09:49 AM
From: David Teran
Subject: BWL Question

The original question is really just a technical one. Working with a client that is leveraging Blueworks Live to map current state processes (no intention of taking the processes to a Workflow Automation Platform). Many people use Blueworks Live simply to model and have a repository for processes. I modeled a process for the question. The client wishes to show 2 different roles (swimlanes) that manually and ad hoc (NORMAL Start Event) have the ability to start the process (no timer and no message event applicable here). The client fully understands the purpose of the timer and message events start events

And yes, fully aware there are different ways to model and document this. 

Appreciate the responses and thank you
David 



------------------------------
David Teran

Original Message:
Sent: Thu June 30, 2022 02:56 AM
From: Penny Fisher
Subject: BWL Question

We also generally use a message start event in our modelling standard unless a time event applies, because its good practice to type your events, but mainly because you can't put any attributes or documentation/narrative behind an untyped event.

------------------------------
Penny Fisher

Original Message:
Sent: Thu June 30, 2022 02:44 AM
From: Penny Fisher
Subject: BWL Question

I have to agree with Simon - if you have correctly identified a single whole business process, there is typically only one start event. Genuine multiple triggers are rare, although they do occur. But generally when people identify multiple triggers, it's because they are really looking at something larger or smaller than a single whole business process, eg a functional task done by one area or a system task like Issue Payment these can be performed in the context of multiple business processes, so appear to have multiple triggers.

It's telling, I think, that the example given in the Blueworks release notes provided by Wayne shows splitting a single event into two, by channel. It's actually the same event, an order is submitted, it's just there are multiple channels available to do it - and where aren't there multiple channels these days? But the event is the same - events and channels are not the same thing (at a business process level, only at a system level, so that's an IT thinking influence I would suggest). So its a personal modelling choice I guess whether you show that as two start events, or use another approach, eg link channel scenarios as lower level models to the first task, that maybe should be Submit Order, because that's part of the process and the organisation would be providing the interface/s to do so, across all relevant channels.

------------------------------
Penny Fisher

Original Message:
Sent: Tue June 28, 2022 03:18 PM
From: David Teran
Subject: BWL Question

Greetings, I've been always wanted to know the following

 

Why is it NOT possible to create a Blueprint that has 2 NORMAL starting points?

 

Thank you

David

With my client we generally like to show different triggers where we can, and agreed prefer to show it as a message event due to the limitations with the 'normal' start trigger.

Message triggers (and terminators) are also useful to show the end to end journey between processes and where we can I use them as linked events. Again Blueworks has a limitation that these only work on a 1:1 basis. So for instance you may want to show two different terminators that are triggering the same process. To get both terminators linked you need to copy the terminator with the link already set up and paste it into the next applicable location. The link copies over and you then just need to change the label heading. You will now have two links showing in the one trigger that come from two different places. (sorry if I'm preaching to the preached but we found this very useful!)

------------------------------
Darren Castle
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Thu June 30, 2022 10:09 AM
From: David Teran
Subject: BWL Question

Agree, easy work around and this proves my point. We should be allowed to have more than 1 NORMAL Start event

 

DT

Original Message:
Sent: 6/30/2022 10:05:00 AM
From: Simon Lant
Subject: RE: BWL Question

Makes sense David, equally in my use cases we are using Blueworks standalone.
Here is how I think I would approach your scenario. Have a single normal start point, then use the flow line tool to connect that start point to more than one activity and connect up to the subsequent activity, delete the intermediate lines between "Submit Request" and "Submit Manager Request".

Blueworks lets you do this, just a bit clunky! :)

------------------------------
Simon Lant

Original Message:
Sent: Thu June 30, 2022 09:49 AM
From: David Teran
Subject: BWL Question

The original question is really just a technical one. Working with a client that is leveraging Blueworks Live to map current state processes (no intention of taking the processes to a Workflow Automation Platform). Many people use Blueworks Live simply to model and have a repository for processes. I modeled a process for the question. The client wishes to show 2 different roles (swimlanes) that manually and ad hoc (NORMAL Start Event) have the ability to start the process (no timer and no message event applicable here). The client fully understands the purpose of the timer and message events start events

And yes, fully aware there are different ways to model and document this. 

Appreciate the responses and thank you
David 



------------------------------
David Teran

Original Message:
Sent: Thu June 30, 2022 02:56 AM
From: Penny Fisher
Subject: BWL Question

We also generally use a message start event in our modelling standard unless a time event applies, because its good practice to type your events, but mainly because you can't put any attributes or documentation/narrative behind an untyped event.

------------------------------
Penny Fisher

Original Message:
Sent: Thu June 30, 2022 02:44 AM
From: Penny Fisher
Subject: BWL Question

I have to agree with Simon - if you have correctly identified a single whole business process, there is typically only one start event. Genuine multiple triggers are rare, although they do occur. But generally when people identify multiple triggers, it's because they are really looking at something larger or smaller than a single whole business process, eg a functional task done by one area or a system task like Issue Payment these can be performed in the context of multiple business processes, so appear to have multiple triggers.

It's telling, I think, that the example given in the Blueworks release notes provided by Wayne shows splitting a single event into two, by channel. It's actually the same event, an order is submitted, it's just there are multiple channels available to do it - and where aren't there multiple channels these days? But the event is the same - events and channels are not the same thing (at a business process level, only at a system level, so that's an IT thinking influence I would suggest). So its a personal modelling choice I guess whether you show that as two start events, or use another approach, eg link channel scenarios as lower level models to the first task, that maybe should be Submit Order, because that's part of the process and the organisation would be providing the interface/s to do so, across all relevant channels.

------------------------------
Penny Fisher

Original Message:
Sent: Tue June 28, 2022 03:18 PM
From: David Teran
Subject: BWL Question

Greetings, I've been always wanted to know the following

 

Why is it NOT possible to create a Blueprint that has 2 NORMAL starting points?

 

Thank you

David