A suggestion to IBM - why not include with the z/OS license a limited z/VM with a limited WAZI for use by the z/OS customer to create test instances of z/OS that can be used for testing system changes, training sysprogs/sysadmins and others on new technology, etc. Perhaps limit it to 'n' instances and provide simple scripting/etc for its use.

This would help where today distributed teams can do this for next to no cost by providing the z/OS team with the sandbox/testing capabilities.

It would probably mean the site would need a larger Z box and more DASD/memory to support this capability but think of the potential.

Something to consider - make it as turnkey as possible so a z/OS site without z/VM skills can easily use it.

------------------------------
Lionel B. Dyck <><
IBM z Systems Champion
------------------------------

Would love it

I am Working on implementing new capabilites on our z-system, and I often see that my colleagues working on x86 can install and show a working PoC of all sorts of cool stuff for basically no cost, because they can install it on their laptop computer using mostly free opensource tools (not S&S needed for the PoC).
To do a similar PoC on the Z-system it would often take hours getting a trial license and potentially a substantial amount to get an LPAR or WASI cloud instance to show it off. A trial license is often too time limited for us to learn how to do it before the trial license runs out.

An included z/VM with zOS would allow us to experiment, learn and show what the z-system can do and probably drive more business in. Linux servers and openshift environment is the most obvious for me, but there are probably many more

A suggestion to IBM - why not include with the z/OS license a limited z/VM with a limited WAZI for use by the z/OS customer to create test instances of z/OS that can be used for testing system changes, training sysprogs/sysadmins and others on new technology, etc. Perhaps limit it to 'n' instances and provide simple scripting/etc for its use.

This would help where today distributed teams can do this for next to no cost by providing the z/OS team with the sandbox/testing capabilities.

It would probably mean the site would need a larger Z box and more DASD/memory to support this capability but think of the potential.

Something to consider - make it as turnkey as possible so a z/OS site without z/VM skills can easily use it.

------------------------------
Lionel B. Dyck <><
IBM z Systems Champion
------------------------------

When you go to demo something on x86, it's not "free."  Somebody bought the machine.  If the machine is virtual, someone paid for the licensing and support for the virtualizing software.  Somebody paid the licensing and support costs for Windows or associated fees and support for Linux for this instance.  Somebody is paying for the network bandwidth (both internal and external).  There are licensing and support costs for all the other software that is installed on the machine.  If you spin it up in the cloud, the usage is going to show up on your bill.

Any open source software that's available without S&S on the distributed side (which should be all of it), if it's available for zSystems, it will have the "no support" (or community support) option, as well.  You're going to have to show me a package that's available "for free" on distributed that is not available for zSystems.  

Why should zSystems products (hardware, z/OS, subsystems, third party software) not get paid for the exact same use?  One could make a very good argument that the incremental cost for zStuff is comparatively more expensive and should be reduced (although much has been done to improve things in this area), but I'd argue it shouldn't be free. 

Just my opinion:  if a customer wants to have test environments available for experimentation, then they should pay for them, no different than hardware and software used to experiement with on the distributed or cloud side.  I believe the complaint here is that your employer is too tight with mainframe resources, not that you can't put free software on that mainframe.  zD&T and zVDT are available at substantially lower per unit cost than zSystems hardware and software.  x86 boxes, Windows and Linux, cloud usage are not, there is no distinction in what you are using the hardware and software for.

------------------------------
Scott Fagen
Mainframe Evangelist
CDW
www.cdw.com/content/cdw/en/solutions/ibm-zsystems.html

Original Message:
Sent: Wed May 01, 2024 04:59 AM
From: Morten Krøyer
Subject: z/OS Enhancement Suggestion

Would love it

I am Working on implementing new capabilites on our z-system, and I often see that my colleagues working on x86 can install and show a working PoC of all sorts of cool stuff for basically no cost, because they can install it on their laptop computer using mostly free opensource tools (not S&S needed for the PoC).
To do a similar PoC on the Z-system it would often take hours getting a trial license and potentially a substantial amount to get an LPAR or WASI cloud instance to show it off. A trial license is often too time limited for us to learn how to do it before the trial license runs out.

An included z/VM with zOS would allow us to experiment, learn and show what the z-system can do and probably drive more business in. Linux servers and openshift environment is the most obvious for me, but there are probably many more

A suggestion to IBM - why not include with the z/OS license a limited z/VM with a limited WAZI for use by the z/OS customer to create test instances of z/OS that can be used for testing system changes, training sysprogs/sysadmins and others on new technology, etc. Perhaps limit it to 'n' instances and provide simple scripting/etc for its use.

This would help where today distributed teams can do this for next to no cost by providing the z/OS team with the sandbox/testing capabilities.

It would probably mean the site would need a larger Z box and more DASD/memory to support this capability but think of the potential.

Something to consider - make it as turnkey as possible so a z/OS site without z/VM skills can easily use it.

------------------------------
Lionel B. Dyck <><
IBM z Systems Champion
------------------------------

I can't disagree with Scott but I have to point out that I didn 't ask for it to be free, just provide the software (z/vm, wazi, ...) with z/OS (a small charge would be reasonable) that supported a limited number of guests so the site easily roll out test/sandbox environments with the same relative ease as our distributed brethren. It is true that someone is paying for it on the distributed side but those incremental costs are significantly less than adding more capacity/etc to an existing Z box.

The advantage would be that with this solution every shop could have a sandbox, and/or test, environment readily available without the customer having to add additional capacity unless the sandbox/test were to be an ongoing requirement.

I'm sure that IBM could come up with some reasonable pricing model with appropriate incentives. 

Numerous advantages and minimal downside (imho - and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently)

When you go to demo something on x86, it's not "free."  Somebody bought the machine.  If the machine is virtual, someone paid for the licensing and support for the virtualizing software.  Somebody paid the licensing and support costs for Windows or associated fees and support for Linux for this instance.  Somebody is paying for the network bandwidth (both internal and external).  There are licensing and support costs for all the other software that is installed on the machine.  If you spin it up in the cloud, the usage is going to show up on your bill.

Any open source software that's available without S&S on the distributed side (which should be all of it), if it's available for zSystems, it will have the "no support" (or community support) option, as well.  You're going to have to show me a package that's available "for free" on distributed that is not available for zSystems.  

Why should zSystems products (hardware, z/OS, subsystems, third party software) not get paid for the exact same use?  One could make a very good argument that the incremental cost for zStuff is comparatively more expensive and should be reduced (although much has been done to improve things in this area), but I'd argue it shouldn't be free. 

Just my opinion:  if a customer wants to have test environments available for experimentation, then they should pay for them, no different than hardware and software used to experiement with on the distributed or cloud side.  I believe the complaint here is that your employer is too tight with mainframe resources, not that you can't put free software on that mainframe.  zD&T and zVDT are available at substantially lower per unit cost than zSystems hardware and software.  x86 boxes, Windows and Linux, cloud usage are not, there is no distinction in what you are using the hardware and software for.

------------------------------
Scott Fagen
Mainframe Evangelist
CDW
www.cdw.com/content/cdw/en/solutions/ibm-zsystems.html

Original Message:
Sent: Wed May 01, 2024 04:59 AM
From: Morten Krøyer
Subject: z/OS Enhancement Suggestion

Would love it

I am Working on implementing new capabilites on our z-system, and I often see that my colleagues working on x86 can install and show a working PoC of all sorts of cool stuff for basically no cost, because they can install it on their laptop computer using mostly free opensource tools (not S&S needed for the PoC).
To do a similar PoC on the Z-system it would often take hours getting a trial license and potentially a substantial amount to get an LPAR or WASI cloud instance to show it off. A trial license is often too time limited for us to learn how to do it before the trial license runs out.

An included z/VM with zOS would allow us to experiment, learn and show what the z-system can do and probably drive more business in. Linux servers and openshift environment is the most obvious for me, but there are probably many more

A suggestion to IBM - why not include with the z/OS license a limited z/VM with a limited WAZI for use by the z/OS customer to create test instances of z/OS that can be used for testing system changes, training sysprogs/sysadmins and others on new technology, etc. Perhaps limit it to 'n' instances and provide simple scripting/etc for its use.

This would help where today distributed teams can do this for next to no cost by providing the z/OS team with the sandbox/testing capabilities.

It would probably mean the site would need a larger Z box and more DASD/memory to support this capability but think of the potential.

Something to consider - make it as turnkey as possible so a z/OS site without z/VM skills can easily use it.

------------------------------
Lionel B. Dyck <><
IBM z Systems Champion
------------------------------

Lionel said:

"...why not include with the z/OS license a limited z/VM with a limited WAZI for use by the z/OS customer to create test instances of z/OS that can be used for testing system changes..."

Morten said:

"...An included z/VM with zOS would allow us..."

I interpreted "included" as meaning "with no additional licensing charges." 

I think what you are asking for already exists.  z/VM can be obtained with a subcapacity license.  Whether the other products are IPLA or MLC, they will also be priced according to the size of the environment.

I think you might still do better economically with zD&T or zPDT (each comes with lots of software "for free") and you can run your z/OS and Linux instances under z/VM for the same flexibility for provisioning new instances.  If you like the cloud model, Wazi as a service is available and charges "by the drink."

I can't disagree with Scott but I have to point out that I didn 't ask for it to be free, just provide the software (z/vm, wazi, ...) with z/OS (a small charge would be reasonable) that supported a limited number of guests so the site easily roll out test/sandbox environments with the same relative ease as our distributed brethren. It is true that someone is paying for it on the distributed side but those incremental costs are significantly less than adding more capacity/etc to an existing Z box.

The advantage would be that with this solution every shop could have a sandbox, and/or test, environment readily available without the customer having to add additional capacity unless the sandbox/test were to be an ongoing requirement.

I'm sure that IBM could come up with some reasonable pricing model with appropriate incentives. 

Numerous advantages and minimal downside (imho - and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently)

When you go to demo something on x86, it's not "free."  Somebody bought the machine.  If the machine is virtual, someone paid for the licensing and support for the virtualizing software.  Somebody paid the licensing and support costs for Windows or associated fees and support for Linux for this instance.  Somebody is paying for the network bandwidth (both internal and external).  There are licensing and support costs for all the other software that is installed on the machine.  If you spin it up in the cloud, the usage is going to show up on your bill.

Any open source software that's available without S&S on the distributed side (which should be all of it), if it's available for zSystems, it will have the "no support" (or community support) option, as well.  You're going to have to show me a package that's available "for free" on distributed that is not available for zSystems.  

Why should zSystems products (hardware, z/OS, subsystems, third party software) not get paid for the exact same use?  One could make a very good argument that the incremental cost for zStuff is comparatively more expensive and should be reduced (although much has been done to improve things in this area), but I'd argue it shouldn't be free. 

Just my opinion:  if a customer wants to have test environments available for experimentation, then they should pay for them, no different than hardware and software used to experiement with on the distributed or cloud side.  I believe the complaint here is that your employer is too tight with mainframe resources, not that you can't put free software on that mainframe.  zD&T and zVDT are available at substantially lower per unit cost than zSystems hardware and software.  x86 boxes, Windows and Linux, cloud usage are not, there is no distinction in what you are using the hardware and software for.

------------------------------
Scott Fagen
Mainframe Evangelist
CDW
www.cdw.com/content/cdw/en/solutions/ibm-zsystems.html

Original Message:
Sent: Wed May 01, 2024 04:59 AM
From: Morten Krøyer
Subject: z/OS Enhancement Suggestion

Would love it

I am Working on implementing new capabilites on our z-system, and I often see that my colleagues working on x86 can install and show a working PoC of all sorts of cool stuff for basically no cost, because they can install it on their laptop computer using mostly free opensource tools (not S&S needed for the PoC).
To do a similar PoC on the Z-system it would often take hours getting a trial license and potentially a substantial amount to get an LPAR or WASI cloud instance to show it off. A trial license is often too time limited for us to learn how to do it before the trial license runs out.

An included z/VM with zOS would allow us to experiment, learn and show what the z-system can do and probably drive more business in. Linux servers and openshift environment is the most obvious for me, but there are probably many more

A suggestion to IBM - why not include with the z/OS license a limited z/VM with a limited WAZI for use by the z/OS customer to create test instances of z/OS that can be used for testing system changes, training sysprogs/sysadmins and others on new technology, etc. Perhaps limit it to 'n' instances and provide simple scripting/etc for its use.

This would help where today distributed teams can do this for next to no cost by providing the z/OS team with the sandbox/testing capabilities.

It would probably mean the site would need a larger Z box and more DASD/memory to support this capability but think of the potential.

Something to consider - make it as turnkey as possible so a z/OS site without z/VM skills can easily use it.

------------------------------
Lionel B. Dyck <><
IBM z Systems Champion
------------------------------

ZD&T and ZPDT require additional work off the Z box and are not the same but it is doable to a point - just (imho) more work.

While z/VM can be acquired it isn't typically included in anyone's thought process for z/OS - same for WAZI - now if IBM were to provide a package as suggested to go with a z/OS license then that would be worth looking at assuming it is reasonably priced.

Cloud - useful but for testing/etc the price could soar if one uses a lot of cloud cycles/resources. It is better in house.

Lionel said:

"...why not include with the z/OS license a limited z/VM with a limited WAZI for use by the z/OS customer to create test instances of z/OS that can be used for testing system changes..."

Morten said:

"...An included z/VM with zOS would allow us..."

I interpreted "included" as meaning "with no additional licensing charges." 

I think what you are asking for already exists.  z/VM can be obtained with a subcapacity license.  Whether the other products are IPLA or MLC, they will also be priced according to the size of the environment.

I think you might still do better economically with zD&T or zPDT (each comes with lots of software "for free") and you can run your z/OS and Linux instances under z/VM for the same flexibility for provisioning new instances.  If you like the cloud model, Wazi as a service is available and charges "by the drink."

I can't disagree with Scott but I have to point out that I didn 't ask for it to be free, just provide the software (z/vm, wazi, ...) with z/OS (a small charge would be reasonable) that supported a limited number of guests so the site easily roll out test/sandbox environments with the same relative ease as our distributed brethren. It is true that someone is paying for it on the distributed side but those incremental costs are significantly less than adding more capacity/etc to an existing Z box.

The advantage would be that with this solution every shop could have a sandbox, and/or test, environment readily available without the customer having to add additional capacity unless the sandbox/test were to be an ongoing requirement.

I'm sure that IBM could come up with some reasonable pricing model with appropriate incentives. 

Numerous advantages and minimal downside (imho - and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently)

When you go to demo something on x86, it's not "free."  Somebody bought the machine.  If the machine is virtual, someone paid for the licensing and support for the virtualizing software.  Somebody paid the licensing and support costs for Windows or associated fees and support for Linux for this instance.  Somebody is paying for the network bandwidth (both internal and external).  There are licensing and support costs for all the other software that is installed on the machine.  If you spin it up in the cloud, the usage is going to show up on your bill.

Any open source software that's available without S&S on the distributed side (which should be all of it), if it's available for zSystems, it will have the "no support" (or community support) option, as well.  You're going to have to show me a package that's available "for free" on distributed that is not available for zSystems.  

Why should zSystems products (hardware, z/OS, subsystems, third party software) not get paid for the exact same use?  One could make a very good argument that the incremental cost for zStuff is comparatively more expensive and should be reduced (although much has been done to improve things in this area), but I'd argue it shouldn't be free. 

Just my opinion:  if a customer wants to have test environments available for experimentation, then they should pay for them, no different than hardware and software used to experiement with on the distributed or cloud side.  I believe the complaint here is that your employer is too tight with mainframe resources, not that you can't put free software on that mainframe.  zD&T and zVDT are available at substantially lower per unit cost than zSystems hardware and software.  x86 boxes, Windows and Linux, cloud usage are not, there is no distinction in what you are using the hardware and software for.

------------------------------
Scott Fagen
Mainframe Evangelist
CDW
www.cdw.com/content/cdw/en/solutions/ibm-zsystems.html

Original Message:
Sent: Wed May 01, 2024 04:59 AM
From: Morten Krøyer
Subject: z/OS Enhancement Suggestion

Would love it

I am Working on implementing new capabilites on our z-system, and I often see that my colleagues working on x86 can install and show a working PoC of all sorts of cool stuff for basically no cost, because they can install it on their laptop computer using mostly free opensource tools (not S&S needed for the PoC).
To do a similar PoC on the Z-system it would often take hours getting a trial license and potentially a substantial amount to get an LPAR or WASI cloud instance to show it off. A trial license is often too time limited for us to learn how to do it before the trial license runs out.

An included z/VM with zOS would allow us to experiment, learn and show what the z-system can do and probably drive more business in. Linux servers and openshift environment is the most obvious for me, but there are probably many more

A suggestion to IBM - why not include with the z/OS license a limited z/VM with a limited WAZI for use by the z/OS customer to create test instances of z/OS that can be used for testing system changes, training sysprogs/sysadmins and others on new technology, etc. Perhaps limit it to 'n' instances and provide simple scripting/etc for its use.

This would help where today distributed teams can do this for next to no cost by providing the z/OS team with the sandbox/testing capabilities.

It would probably mean the site would need a larger Z box and more DASD/memory to support this capability but think of the potential.

Something to consider - make it as turnkey as possible so a z/OS site without z/VM skills can easily use it.

------------------------------
Lionel B. Dyck <><
IBM z Systems Champion
------------------------------

"While z/VM can be acquired it isn't typically included in anyone's thought process for z/OS - same for WAZI - now if IBM were to provide a package as suggested to go with a z/OS license then that would be worth looking at assuming it is reasonably priced."

IBM has salespeople dedicated to (and compensated for) selling these solutions.  They also encourage partners to sell them, as well.

------------------------------
Scott Fagen
Mainframe Evangelist
CDW
www.cdw.com/content/cdw/en/solutions/ibm-zsystems.html

Original Message:
Sent: Wed May 08, 2024 09:43 AM
From: Lionel Dyck
Subject: z/OS Enhancement Suggestion

ZD&T and ZPDT require additional work off the Z box and are not the same but it is doable to a point - just (imho) more work.

While z/VM can be acquired it isn't typically included in anyone's thought process for z/OS - same for WAZI - now if IBM were to provide a package as suggested to go with a z/OS license then that would be worth looking at assuming it is reasonably priced.

Cloud - useful but for testing/etc the price could soar if one uses a lot of cloud cycles/resources. It is better in house.

Lionel said:

"...why not include with the z/OS license a limited z/VM with a limited WAZI for use by the z/OS customer to create test instances of z/OS that can be used for testing system changes..."

Morten said:

"...An included z/VM with zOS would allow us..."

I interpreted "included" as meaning "with no additional licensing charges." 

I think what you are asking for already exists.  z/VM can be obtained with a subcapacity license.  Whether the other products are IPLA or MLC, they will also be priced according to the size of the environment.

I think you might still do better economically with zD&T or zPDT (each comes with lots of software "for free") and you can run your z/OS and Linux instances under z/VM for the same flexibility for provisioning new instances.  If you like the cloud model, Wazi as a service is available and charges "by the drink."

I can't disagree with Scott but I have to point out that I didn 't ask for it to be free, just provide the software (z/vm, wazi, ...) with z/OS (a small charge would be reasonable) that supported a limited number of guests so the site easily roll out test/sandbox environments with the same relative ease as our distributed brethren. It is true that someone is paying for it on the distributed side but those incremental costs are significantly less than adding more capacity/etc to an existing Z box.

The advantage would be that with this solution every shop could have a sandbox, and/or test, environment readily available without the customer having to add additional capacity unless the sandbox/test were to be an ongoing requirement.

I'm sure that IBM could come up with some reasonable pricing model with appropriate incentives. 

Numerous advantages and minimal downside (imho - and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently)

When you go to demo something on x86, it's not "free."  Somebody bought the machine.  If the machine is virtual, someone paid for the licensing and support for the virtualizing software.  Somebody paid the licensing and support costs for Windows or associated fees and support for Linux for this instance.  Somebody is paying for the network bandwidth (both internal and external).  There are licensing and support costs for all the other software that is installed on the machine.  If you spin it up in the cloud, the usage is going to show up on your bill.

Any open source software that's available without S&S on the distributed side (which should be all of it), if it's available for zSystems, it will have the "no support" (or community support) option, as well.  You're going to have to show me a package that's available "for free" on distributed that is not available for zSystems.  

Why should zSystems products (hardware, z/OS, subsystems, third party software) not get paid for the exact same use?  One could make a very good argument that the incremental cost for zStuff is comparatively more expensive and should be reduced (although much has been done to improve things in this area), but I'd argue it shouldn't be free. 

Just my opinion:  if a customer wants to have test environments available for experimentation, then they should pay for them, no different than hardware and software used to experiement with on the distributed or cloud side.  I believe the complaint here is that your employer is too tight with mainframe resources, not that you can't put free software on that mainframe.  zD&T and zVDT are available at substantially lower per unit cost than zSystems hardware and software.  x86 boxes, Windows and Linux, cloud usage are not, there is no distinction in what you are using the hardware and software for.

------------------------------
Scott Fagen
Mainframe Evangelist
CDW
www.cdw.com/content/cdw/en/solutions/ibm-zsystems.html

Original Message:
Sent: Wed May 01, 2024 04:59 AM
From: Morten Krøyer
Subject: z/OS Enhancement Suggestion

Would love it

I am Working on implementing new capabilites on our z-system, and I often see that my colleagues working on x86 can install and show a working PoC of all sorts of cool stuff for basically no cost, because they can install it on their laptop computer using mostly free opensource tools (not S&S needed for the PoC).
To do a similar PoC on the Z-system it would often take hours getting a trial license and potentially a substantial amount to get an LPAR or WASI cloud instance to show it off. A trial license is often too time limited for us to learn how to do it before the trial license runs out.

An included z/VM with zOS would allow us to experiment, learn and show what the z-system can do and probably drive more business in. Linux servers and openshift environment is the most obvious for me, but there are probably many more

A suggestion to IBM - why not include with the z/OS license a limited z/VM with a limited WAZI for use by the z/OS customer to create test instances of z/OS that can be used for testing system changes, training sysprogs/sysadmins and others on new technology, etc. Perhaps limit it to 'n' instances and provide simple scripting/etc for its use.

This would help where today distributed teams can do this for next to no cost by providing the z/OS team with the sandbox/testing capabilities.

It would probably mean the site would need a larger Z box and more DASD/memory to support this capability but think of the potential.

Something to consider - make it as turnkey as possible so a z/OS site without z/VM skills can easily use it.

------------------------------
Lionel B. Dyck <><
IBM z Systems Champion
------------------------------