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  • 1.  Default page size and variants

    Posted Mon August 14, 2023 07:24 PM

    Hi Folks.

    I have a question regarding the default page size for a server.  Actually a couple, though I think I have one answer already.

    1. All the Informix servers I have encountered in the past 15 years or so have all had a default page size of 2K.  I recall that some Solaris systems and some old IBM workstations preferred a default page size of 4K.  Are there ANY servers still around that use a 4K page size?
    2. If you have such a 4K-preferred system, I presume it is not possible to create a DBspace with a 6K page size; that all DBSpaces must necessarily have a page size that is a multiple of 4K.  I'm just requesting a fact-check on this issue.
    3. I understand that in the more ubiquitous 2K-page system, the largest possible page is 16K; eight 2K pages.  In a 4K-page server, is that limit still 16K or does it expand to 32K?  In each page header there is a 3-bit bit-field that seems to indicate this page's size as a multiple of the default page size but I have no access  to any 4K-page server to check this.

    I see that this forum has designated me a badge for "discussion party starter"; I am quite tickled at that!



    ------------------------------
    Jacob Salomon
    ---
    Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded.  --Attr: Yogi Berra
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Default page size and variants

    Posted Mon August 14, 2023 07:47 PM

    Jacob:

    1. All the Informix servers I have encountered in the past 15 years or so have all had a default page size of 2K.  I recall that some Solaris systems and some old IBM workstations preferred a default page size of 4K.  Are there ANY servers still around that use a 4K page size?
             Windows and AIX systems are 4K default pagesize systems (MAC used to be but it is no longer supported). All others, including Solaris, are 2K.
    2. If you have such a 4K-preferred system, I presume it is not possible to create a DBspace with a 6K page size; that all DBSpaces must necessarily have a page size that is a multiple of 4K.  I'm just requesting a fact-check on this issue.
            Exactly. All dbspaces must have a pagesize that is a multiple of the base pagesize.
    3. I understand that in the more ubiquitous 2K-page system, the largest possible page is 16K; eight 2K pages.  In a 4K-page server, is that limit still 16K or does it expand to 32K?  In each page header there is a 3-bit bit-field that seems to indicate this page's size as a multiple of the default page size but I have no access  to any 4K-page server to check this.
            Currently (note currently) the widest pagesize, regardless of the base pagesize, is 16K.



    ------------------------------
    Art S. Kagel, President and Principal Consultant
    ASK Database Management Corp.
    www.askdbmgt.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Default page size and variants

    Posted Tue August 15, 2023 09:16 AM
    With XPS you can specify the PAGESIZE in the ONCONFIG,  the AIX XPS system I look after is 8K

    On 8/14/2023 6:46 PM, Art Kagel via IBM TechXchange Community wrote:
    01000189f6721046-d4aee13b-e14f-45b9-b10c-973683f68de9-000000@email.amazonses.com">
    Jacob: All the Informix servers I have encountered in the past 15 years or so have all had a default page size of 2K.  I recall that some... -posted to the "Informix" group
    IBM TechXchange Community

    Informix

    Post New Message
    Re: Default page size and variants
    Reply to Group Reply to Sender
    Art Kagel
    Aug 14, 2023 7:47 PM
    Art Kagel

    Jacob:

    1. All the Informix servers I have encountered in the past 15 years or so have all had a default page size of 2K.  I recall that some Solaris systems and some old IBM workstations preferred a default page size of 4K.  Are there ANY servers still around that use a 4K page size?
             Windows and AIX systems are 4K default pagesize systems (MAC used to be but it is no longer supported). All others, including Solaris, are 2K.
    2. If you have such a 4K-preferred system, I presume it is not possible to create a DBspace with a 6K page size; that all DBSpaces must necessarily have a page size that is a multiple of 4K.  I'm just requesting a fact-check on this issue.
            Exactly. All dbspaces must have a pagesize that is a multiple of the base pagesize.
    3. I understand that in the more ubiquitous 2K-page system, the largest possible page is 16K; eight 2K pages.  In a 4K-page server, is that limit still 16K or does it expand to 32K?  In each page header there is a 3-bit bit-field that seems to indicate this page's size as a multiple of the default page size but I have no access  to any 4K-page server to check this.
            Currently (note currently) the widest pagesize, regardless of the base pagesize, is 16K.


    ------------------------------
    Art S. Kagel, President and Principal Consultant
    ASK Database Management Corp.
    www.askdbmgt.com
    ------------------------------
      Reply to Group Online   View Thread   Recommend   Forward   Flag as Inappropriate  

    Original Message



     
    You are subscribed to "Informix" as famouseric@gmail.com. To change your subscriptions, go to My Subscriptions. To unsubscribe from this community discussion, go to Unsubscribe.



    Original Message:
    Sent: 8/14/2023 7:47:00 PM
    From: Art Kagel
    Subject: RE: Default page size and variants

    Jacob:

    1. All the Informix servers I have encountered in the past 15 years or so have all had a default page size of 2K.  I recall that some Solaris systems and some old IBM workstations preferred a default page size of 4K.  Are there ANY servers still around that use a 4K page size?
             Windows and AIX systems are 4K default pagesize systems (MAC used to be but it is no longer supported). All others, including Solaris, are 2K.
    2. If you have such a 4K-preferred system, I presume it is not possible to create a DBspace with a 6K page size; that all DBSpaces must necessarily have a page size that is a multiple of 4K.  I'm just requesting a fact-check on this issue.
            Exactly. All dbspaces must have a pagesize that is a multiple of the base pagesize.
    3. I understand that in the more ubiquitous 2K-page system, the largest possible page is 16K; eight 2K pages.  In a 4K-page server, is that limit still 16K or does it expand to 32K?  In each page header there is a 3-bit bit-field that seems to indicate this page's size as a multiple of the default page size but I have no access  to any 4K-page server to check this.
            Currently (note currently) the widest pagesize, regardless of the base pagesize, is 16K.



    ------------------------------
    Art S. Kagel, President and Principal Consultant
    ASK Database Management Corp.
    www.askdbmgt.com
    ------------------------------


  • 4.  RE: Default page size and variants

    Posted Tue August 15, 2023 12:13 PM
    Paul said:
    > With XPS you can specify the PAGESIZE in the ONCONFIG,  the AIX XPS system I look after is 8K

    Hi Paul.

    That's actually a pretty cool item to be aware of.

    While I was still at Informix, we were trying to adapt IDS (or was it still OnLine?) to VMS (anyone old enough to remember that great OS?) and getting horrid benchmark scores.  Having come from  a VMS background, I knew that the basic unit of disk I/O was an 8K page and suggested compiling that as PAGESIZE in their setups.

    I never did find out if they succeeded with the sale or of IDS ever got implemented on VMS.  (According to an article in Wikipedia, VMS is still around, latest release in June 2023.)


    +----- Jacob Salomon --------------------------------------------------+
    | The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of  |
    | anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of |
    | politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.              |
    +--------------- Thomas Sowell (Is Reality Optional?::Student Loans) --+




    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Default page size and variants

    Posted Tue August 15, 2023 12:23 PM
    under VMS I thought was 512bytes at the underlying level but  presented as 8K

    On 8/15/2023 11:12 AM, Jacob Salomon via IBM TechXchange Community wrote:
    01000189f9f89acb-d27a6080-bbec-42a3-b297-29c90b6ff70e-000000@email.amazonses.com">
    Paul said:> With XPS you can specify the PAGESIZE in the ONCONFIG, the AIX XPS system I look after is 8K Hi Paul. That's actually a pretty cool...
    IBM TechXchange Community

    Informix

    Post New Message
    Re: Default page size and variants
    Reply to Group Reply to Sender
    Jacob Salomon
    Aug 15, 2023 12:13 PM
    Jacob Salomon
    Paul said:
    > With XPS you can specify the PAGESIZE in the ONCONFIG,  the AIX XPS system I look after is 8K

    Hi Paul.

    That's actually a pretty cool item to be aware of.

    While I was still at Informix, we were trying to adapt IDS (or was it still OnLine?) to VMS (anyone old enough to remember that great OS?) and getting horrid benchmark scores.  Having come from  a VMS background, I knew that the basic unit of disk I/O was an 8K page and suggested compiling that as PAGESIZE in their setups.

    I never did find out if they succeeded with the sale or of IDS ever got implemented on VMS.  (According to an article in Wikipedia, VMS is still around, latest release in June 2023.)


    +----- Jacob Salomon --------------------------------------------------+
    | The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of  |
    | anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of |
    | politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.              |
    +--------------- Thomas Sowell (Is Reality Optional?::Student Loans) --+
      Reply to Group Online   View Thread   Recommend   Forward   Flag as Inappropriate  

    Original Message



    Original Message:
    Sent: 8/15/2023 12:13:00 PM
    From: Jacob Salomon
    Subject: RE: Default page size and variants

    Paul said:
    > With XPS you can specify the PAGESIZE in the ONCONFIG,  the AIX XPS system I look after is 8K

    Hi Paul.

    That's actually a pretty cool item to be aware of.

    While I was still at Informix, we were trying to adapt IDS (or was it still OnLine?) to VMS (anyone old enough to remember that great OS?) and getting horrid benchmark scores.  Having come from  a VMS background, I knew that the basic unit of disk I/O was an 8K page and suggested compiling that as PAGESIZE in their setups.

    I never did find out if they succeeded with the sale or of IDS ever got implemented on VMS.  (According to an article in Wikipedia, VMS is still around, latest release in June 2023.)


    +----- Jacob Salomon --------------------------------------------------+
    | The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of  |
    | anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of |
    | politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.              |
    +--------------- Thomas Sowell (Is Reality Optional?::Student Loans) --+




    Original Message:
    Sent: 8/15/2023 9:16:00 AM
    From: Paul Watson
    Subject: RE: Default page size and variants

    With XPS you can specify the PAGESIZE in the ONCONFIG,  the AIX XPS system I look after is 8K

    On 8/14/2023 6:46 PM, Art Kagel via IBM TechXchange Community wrote:
    01000189f6721046-d4aee13b-e14f-45b9-b10c-973683f68de9-000000@email.amazonses.com">
    Jacob: All the Informix servers I have encountered in the past 15 years or so have all had a default page size of 2K.  I recall that some... -posted to the "Informix" group
    IBM TechXchange Community

    Informix

    Post New Message
    Re: Default page size and variants
    Reply to Group Reply to Sender
    Art Kagel
    Aug 14, 2023 7:47 PM
    Art Kagel

    Jacob:

    1. All the Informix servers I have encountered in the past 15 years or so have all had a default page size of 2K.  I recall that some Solaris systems and some old IBM workstations preferred a default page size of 4K.  Are there ANY servers still around that use a 4K page size?
             Windows and AIX systems are 4K default pagesize systems (MAC used to be but it is no longer supported). All others, including Solaris, are 2K.
    2. If you have such a 4K-preferred system, I presume it is not possible to create a DBspace with a 6K page size; that all DBSpaces must necessarily have a page size that is a multiple of 4K.  I'm just requesting a fact-check on this issue.
            Exactly. All dbspaces must have a pagesize that is a multiple of the base pagesize.
    3. I understand that in the more ubiquitous 2K-page system, the largest possible page is 16K; eight 2K pages.  In a 4K-page server, is that limit still 16K or does it expand to 32K?  In each page header there is a 3-bit bit-field that seems to indicate this page's size as a multiple of the default page size but I have no access  to any 4K-page server to check this.
            Currently (note currently) the widest pagesize, regardless of the base pagesize, is 16K.


    ------------------------------
    Art S. Kagel, President and Principal Consultant
    ASK Database Management Corp.
    www.askdbmgt.com
    ------------------------------
      Reply to Group Online   View Thread   Recommend   Forward   Flag as Inappropriate  

    Original Message:
    Sent: Mon August 14, 2023 07:24 PM



     
    You are subscribed to "Informix" as famouseric@gmail.com. To change your subscriptions, go to My Subscriptions. To unsubscribe from this community discussion, go to Unsubscribe.




  • 6.  RE: Default page size and variants

    Posted Wed August 16, 2023 10:03 AM
    Paul said:
    > under VMS I thought was 512 bytes at the underlying level but  presented as 8K

    Essentially correct, Paul.  I think.  I suppose block addressing for disk I/O could still be in terms of 512-byte sectors.

    But in the virtual memory scheme used by the VAX firmware, memory pages are in blocks of 8K each.  Since the disk page will be read into [virtual] memory, in makes more sense to zap in the disk I/O in 8K blocks.

    Amazing that I still remember those details from a VMS internals class 30+ years go.  Now, what did I have for lunch yesterday? <grin>

    +----- Jacob Salomon --------------------------------------------------+
    | The first lesson of economics is scarcity: there is never enough of  |
    | anything to fully satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of |
    | politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics.              |
    +--------------- Thomas Sowell (Is Reality Optional?::Student Loans) --+




    Original Message


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