Original Message:
Sent: Sun February 12, 2023 09:25 PM
From: YING WANG
Subject: Clarifications on IBM BAW on Containers deployment with AWS EKS (CNCF) | CP4BAW is not our consideration
Morning Ankit,
https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2020/01/new-quick-start-deploys-ibm-filenet-content-manager-on-aws/
I realized that this quick-start is no longer available, do you know why?
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YING WANG
Original Message:
Sent: Thu September 15, 2022 12:27 AM
From: Ankit Garg
Subject: Clarifications on IBM BAW on Containers deployment with AWS EKS (CNCF) | CP4BAW is not our consideration
Thank you Michael Kirchner.
I will approach IBM Support for below track.
Regarding the question whether you can deploy BAW on CNCF without GraphQL, RR, etc. to reduce the footprint, I kindly ask you to open a ticket with the IBM support on this topic. Even if it was feasible from a technical point of view, you ultimately want to have a fully supported configuration and this statement has to come from IBM support.
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Ankit Garg
Original Message:
Sent: Wed September 14, 2022 12:37 PM
From: Michael Kirchner
Subject: Clarifications on IBM BAW on Containers deployment with AWS EKS (CNCF) | CP4BAW is not our consideration
Hi Ankit,
regarding Q3:
Dev, Test, QA, Prod are just placeholders for different BAW environments which all offer the same capabilities and tools. Depending on the client and their best practices for developing application, there may be only two environments (Dev and Prod) or even more (e.g. unit test, integration test, etc.).
When mapping it to a CNCF deployment, you would use the traditionally installed Process Center environment (which includes a workflow runtime and a CPE/ICN as well) as Dev stage and thus have access to the authoring tools in this stage only.
All other stages would be containerized and running on a CNCF K8s cluster and they would all have the same capabilities, namely workflow runtime only (including tools like Process Admin Console). You would have at least two K8s clusters in order to separate the Prod cluster from all lower stages (which can then be deployed on one K8s cluster into different namespaces). Technically you could also install the Prod stage into a different namespace on the same K8s cluster which runs the non-Prod stages but in this case there is no option for you to test updates to the K8s cluster software without the risk to immediately break the Prod deployment. I'm also working with clients which actually operate separate K8s clusters for each stage.
Regarding the question whether you can deploy BAW on CNCF without GraphQL, RR, etc. to reduce the footprint, I kindly ask you to open a ticket with the IBM support on this topic. Even if it was feasible from a technical point of view, you ultimately want to have a fully supported configuration and this statement has to come from IBM support.
External CPE/ICN vs. embdedded CPE/ICN:
This difference only matters for a traditional installation. In a nutshell the "external" CPE/ICN pattern distinguishes an installation where ICN and CPE are installed into a separate tWAS App Server instance as opposed to the "embedded" pattern where CPE and ICN are installed in the same instance of tWAS which is also used by the BAW workflow component.
The embedded pattern is simpler to install but has limitations regarding scalability (you can only scale all components together CPE, ICN and Workflow whereas the "external" pattern allows you the scale ICN, CPE and Workflow independent from each other), besides content search services (CSS) of CPE are only supported with an "external" pattern.
IBM generally recommends to install the "external" pattern when you want to use case management or content management alongside with workflow (https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/baw/20.x?topic=workflow-planning-external-content-platform-engine).
Container based deployments always follow the "external" CPE/ICN pattern as CPE and ICN run in separate containers using "their own" instance of Liberty.
Best regards,
Michael
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Michael Kirchner
Leading Technical Specialist - Digital Business Automation
IBM Technology
Germany
Original Message:
Sent: Tue September 13, 2022 08:24 AM
From: Ankit Garg
Subject: Clarifications on IBM BAW on Containers deployment with AWS EKS (CNCF) | CP4BAW is not our consideration
Thank you Michael Kirchner for your detailed response.
1. For Question Q1 and Q2 I am good.
2. For Q3, I am referring to below reference where Workflow Server can be designated as following server types:
- Development
- Test
- Staging
- Production
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/baw/20.x?topic=overview-runtime-environments
I wish to understand more of capability, tooling, etc. of Workflow Server i.e. BAW on Containers CNCF with server types namely Development, Test, Staging, Production. With naming differentiation intend is clear but from product capability and usage perspective, I wish to understand the difference.
3. For Question Q4 and Q5 I am good too. Request you to check with product team if can discard GraphQL containers, the Resource Registry, the AppEngine (which runs the new Workplace Portal) and the JMS piece from BAW 20.0.0.2 and 21.0.3 deployments by any means still core case capabilities persists similar to ICM.
4. I would like to have more detailed understanding on external CPE/navigator, embedded and any other in container world and rationale around such build as on-prem never arise with such prerequisite needs. Kindly share reference for conceptual understanding not install/use/administration etc.
Lastly, in our case we are building new Case system for customer hence migration and upgrade is not applicable.
Thank you for sharing additional links and quick turn around to my questions/clarifications.
------------------------------
Ankit Garg
Original Message:
Sent: Tue September 13, 2022 06:16 AM
From: Michael Kirchner
Subject: Clarifications on IBM BAW on Containers deployment with AWS EKS (CNCF) | CP4BAW is not our consideration
Hi Ankit,
regarding Q1+Q2:
Yes, once you move from IBM Case Mgr (ICM) to BAW, you need to install Workflow Center (WFC) as WFC provides the artefact repository and the authoring tools for managing the lifecycle of Case Solutions (and Process Applications).
A traditional WFC implementation provides you the "legacy" Case Builder (outside of WFC). You can still use this legacy Case Builder to modify your existing Case Solution artefacts and deploy then using the BAW admin desktop. However, the recommendation by IBM is to promote the Case Solutions in the legacy Case Builder to become "BAW Case Solutions". The BAW Case Solutions you will continue to manage via the Case Builder which is integrated in WFC. The promotion itself will be done automatically and you can continue to work with your Case Solution in the WFC Case Builder as you were used to in the legacy Case Builder. The look & feel of WFC Case Builder will be more modern (based on the IBM Carbon Design) and it will allow you to use the Client Side Human Services ("coaches") UIs and the BPMN workflow engine for your Case Solution. But this is only optional, you can still add new activities to your existing solutions or even create new solutions which entirely use the classic Case Widgets and the CPE based workflows.
Yes, for CNCF based (containerized) BAW deployments, a traditionally installed WFC is the only choice for an authoring environment.
Regarding Q3:
To be honest, I do not understand your question.
For CNCF only a "workflow runtime" pattern exists. Typically, you would deploy this pattern into different namespaces on a single K8s cluster or you might even have different K8s clusters representing the different stages. But there is no difference in tooling for each of these deployments. In order to access the authoring tools you, you have to use the traditionally installed WFC. For an OCP based deployment, there also exists a "workflow authoring" pattern (which included authoring tooling) but this does NOT apply to CNCF deployments.
Regarding Q4 + Q5:
I'd recommend to deploy at least BAW 21.0.3 containers on CNCF as this is a long term support release (LTSR). The latest version of BAW which can be deployed on CNCF would be BAW 22.0.1. In case you do not need any of the newer capabilities, moving to V21.0.3 is fine. Please have a look at https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/node/6516702 regarding the installation of BAW 21.0.3 on CNCF.
Essentially, you are right, the "blue" boxes in the picture you included are the components represent a CNCF based BAW deployment. However, please note that this picture describes an OCP based deployment. You will not have the IBM Automation Foundation (IAF) layer in this case (it only runs on OCP) and you will not be able to use BAI as well. Additionally, on CNCF you will have the UMS pod(s) which are not shown in your picture as an OCP based deployment uses IAM for user/teams management and SSO.
If you only want to use Case Management applications with traditional FN CPE workflows, you would not make use of the GraphQL containers, the Resource Registry, the AppEngine (which runs the new Workplace Portal) and the JMS piece. However, I'm not aware that it is possible to completely remove the corresponding containers from a deployment perspective as the operator expects these services to exist (as they all manifest a standard BAW deployment). You could, however, use the CRD to reduce the CPU and RAM limits for these pods to the lowest value stated in the product documentation.
Regarding the sizing, you could take the infrastructure you currently use for the different stages (in the traditional ICM installation) as a reference for estimating the resources you want to spend for the Navigator, CPE and maybe the CSS pods (in case you need content based retrieval). For the other pods (Workflow, CMIS, GraphQL, RR, AppEngine, UMS) I would start with the smallest sizing you find for BAW in https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/cloud-paks/cp-biz-automation/21.0.3?topic=ppd-system-requirements
Do not forget UMS (mentioned at the bottom of the page).
Best regards,
Michael
------------------------------
Michael Kirchner
Leading Technical Specialist - Digital Business Automation
IBM Technology
Germany
Original Message:
Sent: Tue September 13, 2022 04:31 AM
From: Ankit Garg
Subject: Clarifications on IBM BAW on Containers deployment with AWS EKS (CNCF) | CP4BAW is not our consideration
Thank you very much Michael Kirchner for detailed response.
1. Refer to questions 1, 2 and 3, do we really require Workflow Center/Process Center/Process Designer/Integration designer in context of only Case centric development and solution as we can leveraged on traditional Case Builder, BAW Admin client, BAW Case client, P8 Process Designer and FDM for artifact and solution deployment?
2. Refer to questions 1, 2 and 3, are you referring to traditional on-prem installation of Workflow center which will connect to BAW on Containers with CNCF via HTTP protocol as only choice with BAW on Containers CNCF?
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/baw/22.x?topic=path-db2-database-server
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/baw/20.x?topic=workflow-connections-from-center-server
3. I wish to understand more of capability, tooling, etc. of Workflow Server i.e. BAW on Containers CNCF with server types namely Development, Test, Staging, Production. With naming differentiation intend is clear but from product capability and usage perspective, I wish to understand the difference.
4. Based on the customer's current product compatibility, we are looking for BAW on containers' version 20.0.0.2 OR 21.0.3 at this point. We wish to know minimum runtime PODs/tooling/capabilities required for our case centric development? As per our understanding from references below, the stand-alone Business Automation Workflow configuration includes these components [at minimum must required]
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/baw/22.x?topic=workflow-containers-installing-configuring-migrating-business-automation
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/baw/20.x?topic=cibaw-containers-in-v20x-installing-configuring-migrating-business-automation-workflow
The stand-alone Business Automation Workflow configuration includes these components:
- Workflow Server (JMS included)
- IBM Process Federation Server
- Elasticsearch (except for Linux on IBM Z and on IBM Power (ppc64le), which supports external Elasticsearch only)
- From the Foundation pattern:
- Application Engine (data persistence enabled)
- User Management Service (UMS): For information about installing UMS, see Installing User Management Services on Containers for Business Automation Workflow
- Business Automation Navigator (BAN)
- From the Content pattern:
- Content Platform Engine (Content Platform Engine)
- Content Management Interoperability Services (CMIS)
- Content Services GraphQL
- BAW Registry
- Operator
In my understanding, those mark in Blue would be applicable for BAW on Containers CNCF base/core capability around case development.
5. On sizing track, I am confused because BAW on Containers CNCF sizing https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/baw/22.x?topic=workflow-planning also refers to CP4BA https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/cloud-paks/cp-biz-automation/22.0.1?topic=pcmppd-system-requirements. Do we need to consider sizing for all listed each and every mandatory component mentioned in question 4 above.
Thank you very much again for your advise and help on this track.
------------------------------
Ankit Garg
Original Message:
Sent: Tue September 13, 2022 03:24 AM
From: Michael Kirchner
Subject: Clarifications on IBM BAW on Containers deployment with AWS EKS (CNCF) | CP4BAW is not our consideration
Hi Ankit,
let me try to answer your questions.
Regarding question 1+2:
IBM does not provide any authoring tooling as part of the workflow server runtime containers.
When deploying a workflow RUNTIME pattern, you only get the workflow server to run/execute workflows. This also applies to pure Case Management solutions. In the BAW architecture, the workflow server provides the Case API layer which is used by the Case Client plugin in ICN to provide Case capabilities used by e.g. the Case Client (for end users) or the Case Admin desktop (for admins).
The authoring tools (such as Case Builder or Web PD) are ONLY provided with the workflow AUTHORING pattern. IBM currently does not provide a workflow authoring pattern for CNCF based container deployments (authoring containers are only provided as part of a CP4BA deployment on OCP).
For CNCF, you have to use a traditionally installed workflow center installation for authoring your workflow artifacts (Case Management solutions as well as Process Applications). Please refer to the following description in the BAW documentation (https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/cloud-paks/cp-biz-automation/22.0.1?topic=workflow-authoring).
Regarding question 3:
Essentially, there is no change compared to traditional Case Management deployments. Authoring tooling (Case Builder) should only exist in the lowest stage, e.g. DEV. Here you can author and test your Case Management solutions. For any higher stage, you would use the Case Admin desktop (or the deployment manager) to deploy the Case solution artefacts. When moving to BAW containers on CNCF, you would add a Process Center installation which provides the Case Builder (and also WebPD) authoring tools. From Workflow Center, you export your BAW Case solution artefacts and you can either use the BAW admin desktop or the BAW container runtime workflow operations REST API to deploy the exported artefacts to the higher workflow runtime stages.
Regarding questions 4+5:
Unfortunately I cannot see the screenshots which you provided, maybe you can add the text you are referring to instead?
Regarding question 6:
Sizing your environment will depend on the capabilities which you plan to deploy. For your FN CM container deployment (CPE, ICN) you have to account for the Case Management load you anticipate (number of cases created, FN P8 workflow operations which run on the CPE, etc). The workflow server will in this case only provide the Case API so the resources required for the workflow server should not be very high.
A ball park sizing estimate for a BAW 22.1 container deployment can be found here
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/baw/22.x?topic=workflow-planning
Best regards,
Michael
------------------------------
Michael Kirchner
Leading Technical Specialist - Digital Business Automation
IBM Technology
Germany
Original Message:
Sent: Mon September 12, 2022 03:43 AM
From: Ankit Garg
Subject: Clarifications on IBM BAW on Containers deployment with AWS EKS (CNCF) | CP4BAW is not our consideration
Hi Team,
Hope you are doing well and best with your health.
We have a plan to install IBM BAW on Containers deployment with AWS EKS (CNCF) for a customer with core Case centric capabilities.
I seek your help understanding a couple of things which seem confusing with IBM CP4BA and BAW on containers.
For our use case, there is no need for any process centric requirement. Appreciate your advise accordingly.
- From case centric capability perspective, we wish to utilize BAW Administration client, Case builder and Case client similar to IBM Case Manager world without Workflow Center and process centric tools like Process Designer, Integration designer. May I check when we install BAW Workflow Server runtime, will the tools install and accessible as part of BAW Workflow Server runtime mentioned in reference https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/baw/20.x?topic=overview-runtime-environments?
- I understand Workflow Server supports server type namely Development, Test, Staging, Production. I am not sure if tools like Workflow Center, Process Designer, Integration designer, BAW Administration client, Case builder and Case client will be accessible only with Development Server type.
- Refer to context above, I understand Workflow center and Workflow Server is needed for solution and other asset deployment from DEV to PROD. How tools like Workflow Center, Process Designer, Integration designer, BAW Administration client, Case builder and Case client would be available in Test and Production for deployment and administration? https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/baw/20.x?topic=overview-case-development-production-environments
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/baw/20.x?topic=overview-case-development-production-environments
- Only for Case capabilities with BAW on containers, I understand following core key 8 components [marked in dark green] required where operator is not listed here. Kindly advise.
I understand rest of the other capabilities optional as per additional need.
- Based on above understanding, below are H/W and POD [minimum 8 pods distributed with 3 worker nodes] requirements. ** I understand minimal PODs required would vary from version 20.0.0.2 to 21.0.3 as 21.0.3 has PFS, GraphQL and App Engine as additional PODs which minimal component stack.
Thank you very much for your help as always.
Regards
Ankit Garg
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Ankit Garg
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